How important are lyrics to you ...and why ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter grimtraveller
  • Start date Start date
Apamallard

Do you think you could have fallen in love with Dylan's words at a poetry reading, divested of the music in which the art was framed? Imagine never having heard the music that accompanied Dylan's songs to begin with.


Could you love something on a par with Bob Dylan's words... rapped?


It's a "test" to see if you truly love lyrics, i.e. poetry.
 
Do you think you could have fallen in love with Dylan's words at a poetry reading, divested of the music in which the art was framed? Imagine never having heard the music that accompanied Dylan's songs to begin with.


Could you love something on a par with Bob Dylan's words... rapped?


It's a "test" to see if you truly love lyrics, i.e. poetry.

And you would not think, to hear him sing
That Todd was the atom bomb
But he knocked up a post that was just the most
On home recording.com


I thought your post before this one was fantastic. This one ^^highlights something I've said a few times - I absolutely love lyrics, but not as independent from the music. The overall sound for me is the primary thingy. But the music does a funny thing. It makes the words come alive, whether I consider them good or not. It kind of shines a light on them and makes them noticeable. And in many cases they then take on a life of their own, rather like a guitar line might, once I've focused on it. Makes me notice lyrics I like as well as ones that I think are rubbish. And for the record there are hundereds if not thousands of songs that I think have shitty lyrics but I love those songs !

What you said about about the era you grew up listening to songs in, I can dig that totally. I grew up in an era slightly earlier, though not much. The same kind of thing applied - it was the sound, the emotional connection. Yet, running parallel to this was a desire to know the words of the songs, not to determine whether they were good or not, but because it was just one of those inexplicable things kids in England did in the 60s and 70s. We just wanted to sing along to all these great songs that so connected with us. Singing surrounded us, it was a singing culture. You sang at school, at football matches, in church, at weddings and funerals, in the playground; you made fun of people with singing.......The meaning of the words was unimportant, we just wanted to sing them, whether you were a cool geezer, a meathead, a plain Jane, a roughneck, a dreamy chick, whatever. We actually used to buy magazines like Disco 45 and Smash hits that carried the lyrics to the big hits of the day. But as some of us got older, we noticed that the songs were actually saying something. In the UK, punk would never have had the brief but seemingly all consuming power it did have if the Pistols, Clash, Damned, UK Subs, Sham 69, Banshees, Generation X and others sang primarilly lurve songs or lyrically obscure stuff. Reggae without lyrics about slavery, Babylon and Marcus Garvey, Ethiopia and Africa would have fizzled out like "My boy Lollipop". Of course the music was crucial. Even more so than the words. For the most part, I'd say it always is - at least initially. And no, I can't say I would like the lyrics I like if they were rapped coz I tend to like rap conceptually, rather than actually, for the most part.

I do love lyrics, not poetry. I also love riffs, solos, backing vocals and drum patterns. But I don't like any musical element independent of the song.
 
Do you think you could have fallen in love with Dylan's words at a poetry reading, divested of the music in which the art was framed? Imagine never having heard the music that accompanied Dylan's songs to begin with.


Could you love something on a par with Bob Dylan's words... rapped?


It's a "test" to see if you truly love lyrics, i.e. poetry.

I listen to blues spirituals and hymns, no music, just voice and that moves me. I read poems by romantics and beats and that engages me. I watch Iron Solomon and TheSaurus rap battles and I enjoy them. So yeah, I think maybe if I 'd heard Dylan as a poet I'd have recognised his soul and intellect. Truthfully though, the music is an essential component to my 'love' of his work and not mere enjoyment.

Lyrics are important to me, but music is too. For me, the sublime occurs when a musician channels his emotion through both and hits me in the head and the heart.
 
I think maybe if I 'd heard Dylan as a poet I'd have recognised his soul and intellect. ...

Lyrics are important to me, but music is too. For me, the sublime occurs when a musician channels his emotion through both and hits me in the head and the heart.

Well said.
 
Quite an interesting and lengthy discussion in this thread.

I'm a bit torn on the subject honestly, as the message behind all the music and words is important but, at the same time actual lyric content is maybe, 50% vital. The sort of music that I predominantly listen to is really about the atmosphere created by the musician, which I suppose just means the music itself is most important.
Thinking quite profusely about this subject at the moment because, I'd say about half the bands I listen to are not in English yet, the music speaks for itself in the way it's presented and, it still can have a significant impact on me. The bands which do use English lyrics I would say that their lyrics are important in how they are executed (of course) and, what the they represent, less so as to whether or not they scan or rhyme.

I keep on wanting to say that the lyrics really are important as, it gives the music even more power than what it already may possess. At the same time, I can think of songs where I do not understand the lyrics due to them being in a foreign language but, the way the instruments are orchestrated, paired with the delivery of the vocals I understand exactly what the band is trying to convey - plus, I know that if I had the lyrics translated that it wouldn't change how I feel about the song(s) because, I already know what the band stands for on a message level.
Essentially, if I know the disposition of the band's views and the music (including vocals of course) are to my liking then, technical lyrical content doesn't matter so much. Shit music (to my standards) with brilliant lyrics isn't going to be as enjoyable to me as, compared to great music with more generic lyrics presuming that they keep in "theme" with the bands motif.
 
Okay, thought I would put my 2 cents in here.
After reading many of the replies and being somewhat undecided I came to the conclusion that yes, lyrics are important to me. Ummm, wait that's no...well here is the dilemma. Probably less so now than in my teens, I often had no idea what the lyrics actually were and of course sang what I thought they said. Remember the famous lyric, "It's my dick, you know oh oh", um no that was "It's magic, you know oh oh". I'm drawing a blank on others at this time, but I'm sure we could all fill up pages with these type of mistakes in understanding lyrics. So no, lyrics haven't really been all that important to me because, I think as Greg L. has said it's probably more the delivery of the lyrics. Doesn't Stevie Ray Vaughn use a nursery rhyme in one of his songs,and others have too.

Now that being said, I do have a hard time listening to some songs have lyrics that are offensive to me in some way. However, most of those type of songs most likely have music put to them that don't interest me anyways (such as death metal). But once in awhile there's even a song whose music I like, but wish the lyrics were different. Do I make any sense?

And there must be something about the lyrics to many people, otherwise many Christian bands that are just as good or even better than secular bands would be getting air time.

An interesting side note here: A Christian band called David and the Giants once did a medley set to specific lyrics, but the music started with Gregorian chants and moved a timeline of popular music ending with some heavy rock. There point was to show those who were raising a fuss about Christian rock music that the message what was important, not the music itself.

Now have I totally confused things here, because I just feel that way myself.
 
Me too

When I understood what the Eagles song "Hotel California" was saying, and who they had in their photograph with them, well that was the last time I listened to that song. I still change the radio station if that song comes on.

Yes, there are many songs where the music was inviting, but then the lryics would speak highly of spiritual evil, and well then, that's the last I would listen to that group.

The Rolling Stones "Sympathy for the devil" did the same thing to me, although I generally always thought their music was poor.
 
Best lyrics ever:

I got something to say
I killed your baby today
And it doesn't matter much to me
As long as it's dead

Well I got something to say
I raped your mother today
And it doesn't matter much to me
As long as she's spread

Sweet lovely death
I am waiting for your breath
Come sweet death, one last caress
 
Wow. I think maybe gregs family was murdered by lyrics.


Great lyrics are not as common as mediocre lyrics. The same is true for great music. But both exist.
Lyrics dont have to be deep or poetic to be great. They can be completely nonsensical and have inherent brilliance and relevance to a song.
Lyrics appeal to a different part of the brain than music, but musical elements do occur in lyricism, and the same creative energy that renders vital melody and harmony is at play in lyrics.
Maybe literacy is an issue.
I find it laughable that anyone would try and say that one element of a song is more critical than another. All are equally critical, and if a song has great production, a great vocal delivery , and shitty lyrics it wont be listenable for very long.
A truly great song has all of its elements done well.

Here are some snippets of great lyric for you to suck on:

" A dog won't bite if you beat it with a bone" - Tom Waits

" Thats the way that the world goes round,
You're up one day, the next you're down
It's a half an inch of water and you think you're gonna drown
That's the way that the world goes round"- John Prine

' Everytime we say goodbye , I cry a little'
Everytime we say goodbye I wonder why a little,
There's no love song finer,
But how strange, the change, from major to minor,
Everytime we say goodbye" Cole Porter

" I got a cravin’ love for blazing speed
Got a hopped-up Mustang Ford
Jump into the wagon, love, throw your panties on the board
I can write you poems, make a strong man lose his mind
I’m no pig without a wig
I hope you treat me kind
Things are breakin’ up out there
High water everywhere" Bob f*@#ing Dylan

"She's Got bad intentions but she sure looks fine
She's Got bad intentions but she sure looks fine
I'm gonna trade my soul for a bottle of wine,
She's got bad intentions but she sure looks fine" - moi

That is of course we are talking about instrumental music, in which case , lyrics have no business being there.
Stupid dumb words.
 
Yep , I just read greg's last post , that clinches it. He's too dahmer-esque, I won't disagree with him anymore. You are right greg. No more lyrics.
 
'Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
“You can’t open your mind, boys
To every conceivable point of view”
They got Charles Darwin trapped out there on Highway Five
Judge says to the High Sheriff,
“I want him dead or alive
Either one, I don’t care.”
High water everywhere' Bobby D
 
are lyrics important... hmmm...

Well... we can START with something like... ahhh... how about Beethoven's 5th? Moving, epic... powerful. Sets the hairs on the back of the neck up, evn with many peope who dont like classical, well... they always have an "ecept that ONE, you know..." and they hum the melody of the famous piece...

Lyrics were completely nonexistent to most of these great classical tracks. And when you talk abou "staying power" as far as the music spanning the generations, hell, these have spanned centuries andf are still powerful pieces. STILL will figure heavily in a modern soundtrack at times. NO LYRICS AT ALL.

So, Lyrics are not an essential ingredient...

Then you take a beatles song, or a elton john classic. The words MAKE it. It cant be done without the words and be anything but "muzak" in an elevator. Even THEN, they still have that vague instrument sound that plays the vocal lead sheet notes, LMAO, so its "still kinda" with lyrics.

the words can on the other end be complete nonsense, or so artistic that the listener is totally free to make their own meaning up for the words. Example? Duran Duran.

Now, I'm not "real big" on country... but one of my buddy's sure is. Naturally I have to hear a bunch of it thru him. A LOT of the songs seem to have some generic formula to the bands music, and a very similar meter to the words... for me, it makes a lot of it bland and uninspired, but thats TO ME. A lot of eople love country. *shrugs*

Here, I would think the words are essential, because much of the genre, the music doe not stand out much, at least to me.

My buddy DEFINITELY does not "get" classical, nor can he long suffer heaaring my attempts at classical sonota I try constantly. But, I sure dont "get" much country of his. Mine is all music and no lyrics, HIS is all lyrics and I joke you could hold country karaoke all NIGHT with only 6 different country songs, without the words no one would know, LMAO

YOUR song that YOU create may need lyrics, may be instrumental... or be somewhere inbetween. I KNOW I can't sing (just trust me here, lol) and I have difficulty learning to write "credible" lyrics... so, its natural I lean towards making instrumentals of a classical persuasion, mostly. *shrugs*

whether its "good" or not? I guess if some segment of the audience says "I like it", then its "good". One could as easily ask "Does every song need a horn section?" Certainly not, but... Chuck Mangione or Herb Alpert might have a differing opinion on that, LMAO.
 
Admittedly classical composition has "stood the test of time" without the assistance of lyrics( with the exception of opera) . (But has it? It has evolved into a dogmatized strict form of itself, with little to no room for deviation or creative divergence. In its time the music of the classical composers had room for improvisation,vis a vis passages that were specifically designated to be improvised. Both Bach and Mozart were great improvisers. Off topic)
But to compare classical music to popular or folk song is apples and oranges.
Music with lyrics has also stood the test of time, ( Stephen Foster, Great folk songs of all cultures, Gershwin, Porter , Dylan, etc..) music with lyrics has stood the test of time and you will find lyrics that far predate Classical music that still have a story to tell .
Im not in anyway debating the greatness of Beethoven or any other instrumental music, I love tons of wordless music, but I am saying that instrumental and vocal music are two different things and shouldnt be compared.
Just as words can stand alone in a poem without music , so a melody can stand alone in a composition without words.

Its all about serving the song.
Both can be profound and great, both can be shitty boring and overdone.
 
lol. Why are you so offended? It's funny when new guys come in all guns a blazing. :laughings:

You are reading too much into what Im saying. Im definitely not offended, I was attempting to be humorous. Do you seriously think I think your family was killed by lyrics too? Or that you are really like Jeffrey Dahmer? Lighten up man. ( well actually I don't know, you might be like dahmer)
 
You are reading too much into what Im saying. Im definitely not offended, I was attempting to be humorous. Do you seriously think I think your family was killed by lyrics too? Or that you are really like Jeffrey Dahmer? Lighten up man. ( well actually I don't know, you might be like dahmer)
You were a little offended. You're not the first and won't be the last. It's okay bro. Welcome to the site. You got any tunes we can hear?
 
Back
Top