Wrong amp? Suggestions for next step up...

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pure.fusion

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I've seen/heard a few nice amp setups here, so this is probably the place to ask...

My Fender Blues Jr is turning out to be fantastic - for one sound. I do like that bearly overdriven tone. And even when I crank it, if turns into something a bit more raunchy.

But, I have a few projects on the go, and I want to get a more distorted sound. I find myself looking at pedals now.

Where would I go from here If I wanted to buy another amp? Probably a head and (small) cabinet combo. This way I could iso-box the cabinet only and .... well obviously the worlds problems would be solved, peace would reign, the birds would sing.....

oh, did I mention that I don't want to take a loan or sell any body parts to pay for it?

Any suggestions here?

Cheers,
FM
 
I'd just get a pedal instead of getting a whole 'nother rig if you're on a bit of a budget.

What kind of "distorted" sound are you going for, for your other projects?
 
oh, did I mention that I don't want to take a loan or sell any body parts to pay for it?
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Peavey and Carvin are the only two brands I know of that make cheap tube amps ($800-$1500)that will last the long haul and do everything they are supposed to do. Or you could just go with a pedal like Walt-Dogg said.
 
Walt-Dogg said:
I'd just get a pedal instead of getting a whole 'nother rig if you're on a bit of a budget.

What kind of "distorted" sound are you going for, for your other projects?
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Thanks for the response guys.

I'd love, say, a Jeff Kollman sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoLiw8MNivg

Maybe a Jimmy Herring from ARU (although this clip is live and is more distorted than studio stuff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSvlPl6rizs

Scott Henderson in here (it's a crap upload to youtube whoever did it, but you'll get the idea in the first 20 secs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCvY4Jrn2TA&feature=related

I actually spent a few hours today with my new(ish) amp and, yes Walt-Dog, a few pedals. I had the little 15W sucker cranked to Master-11, Vol-11 and mic-ed it with a SM-57 off axis. ** My, was this loud **

I played with a Xotic Boost that a friend of mine said "I just ad to try", and a Time Machine Boost by Robert Keely - none of which I had heard of before.

They are boost pedals meant to push your Valve amp, rather than to produce all the distortion (I think, I'm *sure* you know what they are.)

Anyway, two things I learned, (1) there's probably enough drive from this poor little cranked 15 watter for my like, especially if you add a touch of boost, and (2) I think I'm up for serious money if I'm going to acheive any of the sounds above; at $800-$1500 for a valve head.

I'm still coming to terms with this valve sound (rather than solid state crap I've been use to). In some ways it sounds clean, staying true to the original tone of my guitar, and in other ways it sounds quite over drivin. As I listen, my mind flip flops about how distorted it is.

Oh, and when i record it, it sounds cleaner when it's down than when I'm setting up the sound. Do you guys get that?

I guess it was a bit of an unfocused post, but produced *some* results. Obviously I can't just step up slightly from a BJr to a head and cab without $$$

Cheers.

FM
 
NCdan said:
Peavey and Carvin are the only two brands I know of that make cheap tube amps ($800-$1500)that will last the long haul and do everything they are supposed to do. Or you could just go with a pedal like Walt-Dogg said.
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Everyone who has the least bit of like for a Blues Jr should at least look into the Frenzel stuff. For under $1000 bucks Frenzel's amps will blow the BJ outa the solar system. IF you like the Fender sound and you are not talking about doing heavy metal, then Frenzel is the best kept secret around. It's what Fender wishes it still was.

http://www.frenzeltubeamps.com/
 
Frenzel? Cool. I'll look out for it.

... don't think I've ever seen one in Oz, but I'll look out for it.

FM
 
Try an overdrive pedal if you get a chance. The Ibanez Tube Screamer is probably the most famous, but there are probably hundreds of overdrive pedals out there. They do a lot of what you're describing. They provide a boost in input, but they also provide some "drive" or distortion to the signal. It's a smooth distortion that they add, more like added sensitivity than true distortion. Paired with a tube amp, an overdrive pedal can sound pretty good, especially since you're using a lower gain sound.

But that's not to say that OD pedals are limited to low-gain applications. There are metal guitarists that use OD pedals in front of their amps to push them into ferocious distortion.
 
Tadpui said:
Try an overdrive pedal if you get a chance. The Ibanez Tube Screamer is probably the most famous, but there are probably hundreds of overdrive pedals out there. They do a lot of what you're describing. They provide a boost in input, but they also provide some "drive" or distortion to the signal. It's a smooth distortion that they add, more like added sensitivity than true distortion. Paired with a tube amp, an overdrive pedal can sound pretty good, especially since you're using a lower gain sound.

But that's not to say that OD pedals are limited to low-gain applications. There are metal guitarists that use OD pedals in front of their amps to push them into ferocious distortion.
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+1. I've got a Blues Jr. and while I don't need it for high gain stuff (I've got other amps for that) I do love to throw overdrive pedals in front of it. I've got 5 or 6 OD and/or distortion pedals, and this thing takes 'em all well. It can get downright gnarly if needed, but it's great in the middle ground--more than just a break up, but not a buzz saw--when driven with one of the pedals.
 
If you do want to change amps, might I suggest a A Fender Hot Rod DeVille or Deluxe and then running an OD pedal in front of the amp (with or without the Deville/Deluxe's Drive channel on, I don't suggest running an OD pedal in front of the amp with it's More Drive channel on, gets WAY too hairy, and not in a good way)

The only reason I suggest that is because you can get a Hot Rod DeVille or Deluxe for $400-$600, definitely not a bank-breaker and they have amazing tone.

But if your satisfied with a ton of pedals in front of your Blues Jr. go for, Fender tube amps take pedals like a charm.

Though a note, the DeVilles and Deluxes have two built in distortion/gain stages (Drive and More Drive) Those might be enough for you actually, I would suggest getting a basic gain mod and a tube swap to take away the "muffled" or "boxy" sound that the Drive channels of DeVilles and Deluxes have, something to do with the fact that the tubes that they come stock with don't get very hot.
 
Walt-Dogg said:
If you do want to change amps, might I suggest a A Fender Hot Rod DeVille or Deluxe and then running an OD pedal in front of the amp (with or without the Deville/Deluxe's Drive channel on, I don't suggest running an OD pedal in front of the amp with it's More Drive channel on, gets WAY too hairy, and not in a good way)

The only reason I suggest that is because you can get a Hot Rod DeVille or Deluxe for $400-$600, definitely not a bank-breaker and they have amazing tone.

But if your satisfied with a ton of pedals in front of your Blues Jr. go for, Fender tube amps take pedals like a charm.

Though a note, the DeVilles and Deluxes have two built in distortion/gain stages (Drive and More Drive) Those might be enough for you actually, I would suggest getting a basic gain mod and a tube swap to take away the "muffled" or "boxy" sound that the Drive channels of DeVilles and Deluxes have, something to do with the fact that the tubes that they come stock with don't get very hot.
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Hot Rod DeVille? Yep. I was playing one of these on the weekend, and it's not he first time I've played one. But what does this mean for a 40W amp? I have to make even *more* noise to get it sounding like it's suppose to? I know that it does a really good job of creating nice overdrive-y sounds at low volume, but I'm assuming the same principal applies, you have to light those tubes up to get the sparkly sound. I do like this Hot Rod DeVille sound, but I don't want another combo, If I have to deal with dulling the sound. I'd prefer a head/cabinet, where I can isobox the cab.

.. and yes, I was very impressed when I use a dist pedal into the clean of the Hot Rod DeVille.

FM
 
WhiteStrat said:
+1. I've got a Blues Jr. and while I don't need it for high gain stuff (I've got other amps for that) I do love to throw overdrive pedals in front of it. I've got 5 or 6 OD and/or distortion pedals, and this thing takes 'em all well. It can get downright gnarly if needed, but it's great in the middle ground--more than just a break up, but not a buzz saw--when driven with one of the pedals.
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Awesome, another Blues Jr. So, do you dial in a clean sound for your amp and let the pedal supply al the drive? Or do you allow the amp to overdrive on top of the distorted signal going in?

I've had limited success with higher gain pedals (like a tube screamer) into the blues Jr, it seems to break up in a really bad way :(

I'm really interested at what master/Vol you run your amp and what sort of drive you get out of it - with the pedal in front.

Cheers,

FM
 
While I don't use a Blues Jr., I get my best success out of my TubeScreamer when my amp is set to a very mild breakup. Set it where it sounds clean when you pick lightly but it breaks up when you really dig into a full 6-string chord. Then I set my TubeScreamer with all of the controls at 12:00 most of the time. That gives a good, midrange crunch through my Traynor YCV80.

I'm not too crazy about how it sounds with my amp on its clean setting and the TS9 turned on. The clean channel just isn't voiced right for an OD for my tastes. Although I do like the sound of my amp's clean channel cranked all the way up. Nasty, loose, out of control distortion. That's fun sometimes.
 
I could suggest a million amps, but I would definately recommend a closed back cabinet if you wanna get "heavy" sounds. Mesa's, Marshalls, Divided by 13, Krank, Orange and many others rely on the cab to get their 'sound'. You might drop a 25W greenback in that Fender and fabricate a closed baffle board just for kicks.
 
pure.fusion said:
Hot Rod DeVille? Yep. I was playing one of these on the weekend, and it's not he first time I've played one. But what does this mean for a 40W amp? I have to make even *more* noise to get it sounding like it's suppose to? I know that it does a really good job of creating nice overdrive-y sounds at low volume, but I'm assuming the same principal applies, you have to light those tubes up to get the sparkly sound. I do like this Hot Rod DeVille sound, but I don't want another combo, If I have to deal with dulling the sound. I'd prefer a head/cabinet, where I can isobox the cab.

.. and yes, I was very impressed when I use a dist pedal into the clean of the Hot Rod DeVille.

FM
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Deluxes are 40 watts (1x12), DeVilles are 60 watts (4x10 and 2x12)

Ahh, wasn't sure what you wanted, just trying to help out with what you said about your budget.

If find a tube stack you like, just look on your local Craigslist and surrounding areas day in and day out, I'm sure you could find a deal.
 
That's actually the best idea.

I'm in no rush, I'm only greedy! I should sit on the second hand market ans see what comes up....

FM
 
pure.fusion said:
That's actually the best idea.

I'm in no rush, I'm only greedy! I should sit on the second hand market ans see what comes up....

FM
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You never know. I just found an Ampeg V-4 half stack for $500, except the guy lives 60 miles away and I don't have the time to meet up with him...
 
Walt-Dogg said:
You never know. I just found an Ampeg V-4 half stack for $500, except the guy lives 60 miles away and I don't have the time to meet up with him...
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Oh wow. I'd *make* the time for that.

What is the go for second hand valve heads? Is it risky buying one that has "issues". Can the Issues always be fixed by a tech?

FM
 
pure.fusion said:
Oh wow. I'd *make* the time for that.

What is the go for second hand valve heads? Is it risky buying one that has "issues". Can the Issues always be fixed by a tech?

FM
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Well normally I would, but I have finals this week... He said I could try back at him at the end of the week to see if he still has it, hopefully he does...

Could be anything really, some brands are more expensive just for the name, others are inexpensive because they're only coveted by some and the standard market of buyers doesn't really dig them.

If it's the right tech, any issues can be fixed. I wouldn't buy one with any issues, well major ones at least, I have a friend in the area's amp tech so he always cuts me deals for simple amp repairs. Major repairs though are another story, cant afford to lose money these days can you?
 
Do valve amps last? As in, are they reliable? Or (say, like a car) if it's 20 years old, can you expect to get problems that need addressing because of it's age?

Or is it the type of device that just keeps on going (not counting the cunnnnnsumable tubes) and only breaks if dropped or something?

Sorry for the noob type questions, but If I ask a salesman the same thing, the answer will surely be teh one that leads to buying a new one..

FM
 
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