You ever just feel like throwing in the towel?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sweetbeats
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I'm still pretty bummed about my analog deck being down. Ten years ago, I got my TASCAM 246 and I absolutely love it. But, I'm just a hobbyist and I unfortunately have let it sit unused for a couple years. The belts needed changing, so I found some replacements. But, now that I've got them on the machine, the PGM buss quit working. No sound output, no signal on the meters. :( I don't relish shipping this portastudio back to the mother ship.

But, I do love analog. It just sucks, this is my only deck.
 
Looter said:
But, I do love analog.
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is it your love of analog or your fear of the digital realm?

I know I sound like a broken record much of the time but it's hard for me to comprehend someone actually loving the rich warmth of a 1/4" cassette tape over the ease of use and availability of parts and programs of the digital world.
 
Please don't throw in the towel...

I allways read what you write...I am new...to analog...and your comment help guide me. It's kind of like John Mayers 1957 Fender strat. Analog will come back...it will be coveted and saught after...you just wait a little while longer and see...thanks Sir.
 
ez_willis said:
is it your love of analog or your fear of the digital realm?

I know I sound like a broken record much of the time but it's hard for me to comprehend someone actually loving the rich warmth of a 1/4" cassette tape over the ease of use and availability of parts and programs of the digital world.
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I don't believe 'fear' has anything to do with it. I bought my gear because I liked listening to old '70's dub recordings and I wanted a setup that would allow me to experiment with that type of sound and that type of mixing. It's a little hard to mix on the fly like that using a mouse.

I also chose a format that would actually limit me a little bit, so that I could learn how to maximize my four tracks that I have to work with. I'm of the opinion that musicians get lazy when they have infinite tracks, pitch-correcting plugins, etc.
 
Looter, that's actually what drew me into multitrack recording in the first place early in college...I was in a reggae band for 3 years...didn't care for reggae music in the beggining but it really grew on me, particularly classic dub...that style remains one of my favorite styles of music. I wanted to be able to create my own dubs so that's when I set out to understand how engineers could take a song and be able to go back and remove vocals and bring other instruments in and out with all the whacked-out effects and such, and thus the door to the world of multitracking opened. :)

ReelFostex!, don't worry, I won't throw in the towel. :) Thanks!
 
ez_willis said:
is it your love of analog or your fear of the digital realm?

I know I sound like a broken record much of the time but it's hard for me to comprehend someone actually loving the rich warmth of a 1/4" cassette tape over the ease of use and availability of parts and programs of the digital world.
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Cassette is 1/8".

Who the hell would be afraid of a format or device? :p

Ease of use does not = good music.

Some tools/technologies just allow you to make bad music faster.
 
Beck said:
Right, and that's what I've been saying about analog all this time. ;)
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i keep hearing people saying that they prefer the sound of analog but are frstrated that their 20 year old decks don't work anymore and they can't find parts for it, and tape/cassettes are getting harder and harder to get.

if you can't find the recording medium or your deck is broken, it ain't just recording.
 
jpmorris said:
Unfortunately I have a Terratec Phase 88, the firewire version, which I use for making digital copies of the multitracks. * * *
I've used 98, 2K and XP Home. All of them have been problematic in one way or another, * * *
In short, there is no panacea. Tape isn't and computers certainly aren't. At the end of the day there is always a place for problems to creep in, whatever you're using to record. You just have to grit your teeth and soldier on.
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True enough. One thing I've done for good or ill, is to use yesterday's card, software or whatever, so I can benefit from others problem solving...


i keep hearing people saying that they prefer the sound of analog but are frstrated that their 20 year old decks don't work anymore and they can't find parts for it, and tape/cassettes are getting harder and harder to get.
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Some brands yes, but try to find driver support for D-Funcked audio's 16 bit wondercard from 2001. I have a 20 year old DAT machine, and a 15 year old A/D D/A. Heck, you can get belts for a 30 year old vacuum cleaner...and, for that wondercard, you may find a small group of fanatics update the drivers, like e.g. gadgetlabs or the ALSA project.

I've had no trouble maintaining my "semi-pro" Otari and Teac/Tascam decks. And the high end stuff like MCI, Studer, or Ampex also supported if you belong to the high end... New tape is readily available from e.g. ATR, RMGI or Zonal (not sure if that is just OEM'd from someone else) and really, about as readily available as it was 10-15 years ago. You never could get 1/2" tape at the grocery store.

*Some* analog technologies are definitely a niche market, cassette** for one and cassette likely killed the consumer r2r, the same way hard disk killed ADAT.

EDIT:

** Although somebody was telling me he bought a 2004 (I think -- mid 2000s anyway.) car that had a cassette deck and no CD....


EDIT #2

And tape is probably easier to get than it was 5 years ago...
 
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ez_willis said:
i keep hearing people saying that they prefer the sound of analog but are frstrated that their 20 year old decks don't work anymore and they can't find parts for it, and tape/cassettes are getting harder and harder to get.

if you can't find the recording medium or your deck is broken, it ain't just recording.
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Look around you!

Most music related forums are people crying for help, regardless of format. The issues and cries for help involve about 95% digital equipment… and/or the fundamentals of recording in general, which comparatively few people grasp. Every mandamde thing malfunctions and misbehaves. I've been a computer/network consultant for the last 12 years or so. Believe me I know all about it... just another reason I prefer analog.

Good luck finding parts for antiquated digital formats. If you think it’s difficult to find/service analog gear you're simply out of the loop... it's not that difficult. My 20 and 30-year-old decks work as well as the day I bought them. And that's what forums like this are for -- people that know what they're doing passing knowledge along to those that don't know because they are fairly new to it all. Yet some people can’t or just won’t get it. Not everyone is cut out for recording, regardless of format. There’s nothing we can do about that except encourage them to find another hobby or vocation.

People ask questions and make statements out of ignorance. The questions of a neophyte do not define the status of analog. They only reveal misconceptions of those that don’t know what the hell is going on in the recording world.

We answer the same questions over and over, albeit so much of it is buried. Forums really aren’t the best format for exchanging info of this sort, so it’s best to do some research and see for yourself what’s out there.

~ Tim
:)
 
Yadda yadda yadda.

My reel to reel machines get used because they are fun and sound good. Maintenance is challenging if you DIY and takes a bit of learning and some vital tools. This place has been invaluable in that respect.

My 4 track cassette Portastudio gets used because it's a personal challenge to get anything half decent out of it sound wise with only four tracks, one hi-zone input only and no eq. I don't think I've managed it yet to my satisfaction. If it died I wouldn't worry too much and not replace it.

My stereo cassette deck still gets used a lot and still sounds good. It is as adjustable as any of my reel to reels. If you know your way around reel machines you can keep it in good shape. It'd be hard to replace if it died. I have all the service and user manuals but reference tapes are impossible to find.

My DAT recorder does not get used.

My MD recorder does not get used.

My sync'd multitrack hard disk recorders get used a lot.

My two track cd master recorder gets used a lot. Everything ends up going through this at the end.

I don't use a laptop / desktop system anyway.

The 1/4" Revox PR99 reel machine being fed by the Studer 089 desk with the good mikes in a treated room sounds the best of the lot by a long shot, especially on rock drums and bass. The sync'd multitrack hard disk recorders are the most flexible and the easiest to use and get something useable happening on. Especially in my home attic.

Some people have big train sets. I have these things. A day wouldn't go by without one or more being turned on and used.

:)
 
I'm there again...

Reviving this old thread as I'm having a "throw in the towel" day.

Totally disheartened...

Having so much trouble trying to figure out why my Soundtracs mixer meters are misbehaving. I was using one of the electronics modules on my Ampex MM-1000 to monitor the group output from the mixer to see if I could hear unwanted noise or oscillation artifacts in the audio path and after 15 minutes or so of the electronics on the Ampex being powered up **BANG!**...like a Glock 45 going off in the room. I knew what it was even though I've never experienced a capacitor blowing, just didn't know where it came from at first, but as the smoke filtered out from the lower section of the Ampex I got my answer.

My soundroom smells like fish. The secondary filter cap in one of the electronics supplies blew and I have no idea why. I rebuilt those supplies and took such great care in the process and I've had them powered up dozens of times, many for extended periods like for hours and hours with no trouble and all of the sudden kablam. I haven't had a chance to investigate very closely yet but I took a peek inside and the once pretty innards are now a crazy smelly mess.

What am I doing?

Totally didn't expect that and its come at a bad time.

Whine-whine-whine.
 
That sucks in a big way, very sorry that happened! Unreliability is part of the fun of cool old gear, though....you're making me nervous about my console supplies! I know I need to get fresh caps in there as soon as I can, but I need some gear to sell before it can happen. Was it an old cap that blew, or a fresh one?
 
Brian,

The supply was fully rebuilt with new Mallory, Nichicon and Vishay caps...good stuff. I was really careful with how I routed things to avoid shorting since most of the caps are wired to the lid with the connectors on it...no PCB.

The cap that blew was a 500uF 50V cap. All the cymbals in the room were going "ahhhhhhhh" when it went off.

Here is the inside of the ower supply:

IMG_0193_1_1.JPG



The grey flakes and fluffy paper are the innards. The green wire with the blue ring on the end of it is what was the "+" end...totally blew off sending the rest of the can off like a rocket...it was anchored with a zip tie which has been stretched to at least double the length. You can see what's left of the can sitting up next to the large blue cap.

Here's a couple more:

IMG_0194_2_1.JPG


IMG_0195_3_1.JPG



And here is a closeup of the "-" end...what's left of the tail is welded to the can.

IMG_0200_4_1.JPG
 
Cory

A few anectodes

I have a magazine article from 1956, has teh Stancor Williamson amp in it. The authors go through the building etc etc etc. and then the test procedures, wrong current draw, red hot glow on one 807. So they admit they tear apart the bias circuitry, re-wire a bunch of stuff and still red glow blown fuse.... So they swap an 807 and turns out one of the 807's they had was bad.... My point is, even those guys, who are in some kind of lab, writing articles for some kind of famous magazine, got stuck w/ bad parts, and then wasted a bunch of time troubleshooting the wrong things....

Two more things, I've only heard a capacitor go bang because I hooked it up wrong. You didn't make that mistake! A mistake I seem to make more than I'd like to admit but will

I wasn't getting power to my ARP Avatar, thought it was the PSU. It provided power until hooked up and then no power. Frustrated as all get out. So I email a guy who works on these about rebuilding the PSU and he says your PSU is fine, you got a short somewhere. So I test for shorts on all the submodules (which have individual jacks) and sure enough a small filter cap had blown to a short.

Easy, and I have two full bags of 10uF capacitors I got from FreeGeek, so I desolder the bad one, and install a new one, and go to admire my handy work and notice that the minus sign is on the plus side. So I have to desolder the damn thing again, and switch it around, and in the meantime some of the beautiful hand drawn traces start to lift, not all the way, but just enough so that I'm going to be hard pressed replace that same cap again if I have to. And I think to myself, who do I think I am, here is this rare piece (only 300 made) and here I am putting capacitors in backwards....

But my second solder job held fine, that free part was all it took to get this machine back to making sounds that only an ARP synth can make, and I did it. And as soon as I hooked it back up to the cv/gate/trig on the Quadra, the Quadra memory started acting up, so back to the internet, searching for parts, but half the fun is finding some guy in England who has programmed CPU's for this thing.

You got a bad capacitor from wherever. Don't sweat it, the whole point of keeping this gear is keeping up with this gear. It's one capacitor and it isn't your fault.
 
Blue Jinn said:
You got a bad capacitor from wherever. Don't sweat it, the whole point of keeping this gear is keeping up with this gear. It's one capacitor and it isn't your fault.
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Don, I sincerely thank you, though I still believe that something was wrong with the install...something wasn't insulated well enough...I can still smell fish...
 
I once replaced a cap on an ART tube pre, had it open on the table and plugged it in. Little did I know I had grabbed the wrong AC adapter. The power cap popped and hit the ceiling like a bullet. Luckily my face was not in the way.
 
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