What sweetbeats has been up to anyway...

[sweetbeats]

Looking GREAT Cory, very nice! I'm envious of the attenuation you're getting from the walls too, what a nice perk that would be! Curious how much is leaking outside the house? (I'm assuming not too bad at all!)

My wife was wondering that too...I'll likely measure that at some point because I'm curious but I'm fairly certain it is not as good. The windows are a major leak point. The windows that are there have insulated frames and laminated glass so they are better than standard vinyl windows, but I didn't want to do the double-window thing...and on the interior walls there are two layers of the Quietrock (one on the inside of the room and a layer on the other side on all the adjoining walls). On the exterior wall (which is only the wall with the windows) there is just the layer of Quietrock inside and then two layers of 5/8" plywood sheeting (that's another story) and the cement fiber siding on the outside. Its still good, but not quite as good as the Quietrock methinks. BUT, the closest neighbor's house is 75'~100' feet away maybe? I'm pretty sure I could pound on the drums any time day or night and never be a nuisance. Maybe I should measure in the garage too...just one layer of Quietrock there too and then one layer of 5/8" fire-rated sheetrock on the garage side (that wall is the one my son's drums face...the one with the cabinets mounted to the wall) so I'm sure the attenuation is not as good, BUT its the garage and the though the garage is unfinished, the roll-up doors are the steel insulated type and I'm sure the cement fiber siding helps some, and that all faces the street and the closest house thataway is well over 100' away.

 

[SteveM]

Are you talking about the two drumsets being angled next to each other in the corner or are you talking about having my drums face into the corner?

I thought that was one kit. haha Cute, a little drum set.

Yeah, I meant the later. I asked because I'd actually love to do the same thing, for the same reason, saving space.

Thanks for putting up the clips!

Recording the drums will be another story in terms of mid and high frequency distortions from the wall proximity but that would be an issue no matter which way the drums were facing and frankly I think the way they are sitting will make it easier to manage in terms of mineral fiber panel placement.

Interesting point.


Damn, I wonder why I got, "format not supported" for the video clip.

 

[sweetbeats]

Do you have Quicktime on your computer?

You need a video player that supports the .mov video format (which is the native Quicktime format) and Windows Media Player and the like don't got it.

 

[SteveM]

oh, ok. I think I had a problem with mine and deleted it. Maybe I'll see if I can get another version of it.

 

[cjacek]

I was looking forward to this day!

Cory, got to finally view the videos and, of course, seeing the photos of Matilda in the room and all..... It's such a warm and inviting room, the colors (nice) and the acoustics are really good. The drum playing is first rate! I like the way you formatted the video (good camera placement). There's something really cool about the sound you got with your camera. I prefer it to a closely mic'ed set or using complex mic'ing techniques (or even expensive mics). Yes, sounds distorted, indeed due to the camera's mic / circuitry but that's what I love about it. Sounds really natural to me, like I was standing there. The crunch gives it character and power (you can feel it). Everything nowadays sounds the same. Your sound is different and more interesting. Gives more credence to the saying that it's all about talent and mic technique. If it were me, I'd be putting an old dynamic (not condenser) right where the camera is and plugging that into Matilda at 15ips. THAT I would like to hear. All automatically and expertly mixed by mother nature, with a touch of real room reverb, Matilda circuitry and colored further by oxide. Again, great playing, sound, video and your son playing with you is all the more cool!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Anyway, just one more ste toward getting several years of projects conquered.

Boy do I hear that Cory. I think I have 20 or more projects going at once too. But when my current project is done it'll allow me to finish up at least 10 more studio related projects.

Fantastic thread Cory. Nice work. Although I'm REALLY curious about what cjacek said here....

It's such a warm and inviting room, the colors (nice) and the acoustics are really good.

In relation to this...

Recording the drums will be another story in terms of mid and high frequency distortions from the wall proximity but that would be an issue no matter which way the drums were facing and frankly I think the way they are sitting will make it easier to manage in terms of mineral fiber panel placement.

I have to admit I didn't look at the videos or hear whatever cjacek heard, because the computer I'm using at the moment is temporary and doesn't have any audio hooked up. But I'm curious about what you plan on doing as far as acoustical treatment is concerned? Your room is really small, and small rooms require SERIOUS bass trapping. Would you mind sharing your plans for treatment with us?
And what are you using for your "fiber panels"?

I ask, because if you haven't purchased any yet..you might consider a trip to Portland. I made a trip up there to get mine from Pyramid Insulation(SPI) because they were the only place in Oregon where I could get 4" and 3" thick 4'x10' panels of rigid fiberglass(3lb density Knauf) which I needed for my "superchunk" bass traps, and other panels. Barely got there in time after traveling all day from Coos Bay. Reached southern Portland about 2 in the afternoon, but it took 3 more HOURS just to cross Portland to Pyramid which is by the airport. Dang...took another hour just to pack it in my truck. And I DO mean pack. Here is what it looked like when I got home.

Here is one of the fabric frames for my wall/ceiling superchunks.

Still haven't finished the other one. It's project #11 on MY list. Trouble is, the ones preceeding it are my wifes "honeydo" list And it keeps getting longer.

Hey, on a side note...got any snow this morning?

 

[moresound]

Liking that pick up Rick!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Liking that pick up Rick!

You likey huh? Me too, especially after putting $30 gas in my Dodge van with a 360 V8 and make 4 trips to town about 2 miles away...and it's GONE! Paid $3.49 a gallon yesterday. Now I REALLY like my beatup, cheap to drive ugly and FIX IT YOURSELF pickup. That's why I just put a new starter, U joints, and changed the oil. I like to go places....cheap. The looks don't bother me. I'm an old fart.

Hey Cory...just made a trip to Junction City in my van. Round trip from Coos Bay..$75 in gas!!! GAK@@#$^%#$^$^*&*&)^*%^^@##$!@ Same trip in pickup...$22.

Knowing PEAK OIL is already here...in a couple of years..there will be NO trips for the average working person. Especially with the revolts happening in the Mideast.
I watched a guy fill up his motorhome the other day. A whopping $432!!! I wonder how far he'll go before he has to fill it again. At 4-6 miles per gallon...not very far.

 

[SteveM]

I've actually gone and set my drum kit up the same way. Saved some space and they are there to play when I want without having to break them down. What I want to know now is, what are "serious bass traps" ?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

what are "serious bass traps" ?

ALL small rooms are subject to severe room modal anomalies which are related to the rooms 3 dimensions. Since low frequency modes terminate in ALL the corners of the room, this is where LF bass trapping needs to be...ie..the corners. Hence SUPERCHUNKS of rigid fiberglass.

NORMALLY, I would link you to a site called Studiotips/Acoustics. Apparently it has been taken down for some reason. I did a quick search and this may explain a bit of what I'm talking about.

Steven P. Helm: DIY Bass Traps

However, here is a picture of a Superchunk on the floor in a testing lab. These work in ALL corners...floor to wall, wall to wall, wall to ceiling.

Do a search in the Studio Design and Building forum. There are TONS of threads regarding this subject.

 

[SteveM]

Thanks Rick. I'm not going to be able to go too nuts here with the limited space. I have to find some half solution. I know there's tons of info out there. I'll check it out the links.

 

[GCalo]

The way to get rid of low frequency multiple harmonics is to design the room from the beginning.

Afterwards it is tough but doable.

90 degree cormners cause all the probs.

Bass traps were designed to rid the room of the additional harmonics crreated from a fundamental harmonic.

 

[sweetbeats]

Cory, got to finally view the videos and, of course, seeing the photos of Matilda in the room and all..... It's such a warm and inviting room, the colors (nice) and the acoustics are really good. The drum playing is first rate! I like the way you formatted the video (good camera placement). There's something really cool about the sound you got with your camera. I prefer it to a closely mic'ed set or using complex mic'ing techniques (or even expensive mics). Yes, sounds distorted, indeed due to the camera's mic / circuitry but that's what I love about it. Sounds really natural to me, like I was standing there. The crunch gives it character and power (you can feel it). Everything nowadays sounds the same. Your sound is different and more interesting. Gives more credence to the saying that it's all about talent and mic technique. If it were me, I'd be putting an old dynamic (not condenser) right where the camera is and plugging that into Matilda at 15ips. THAT I would like to hear. All automatically and expertly mixed by mother nature, with a touch of real room reverb, Matilda circuitry and colored further by oxide. Again, great playing, sound, video and your son playing with you is all the more cool!

Thanks, Daniel!

There just happens to be an SM-57 on a stand in that corner now...funny thing...Matilda isn't up and running yet of course but I might have something else I can track with...maybe this weekend...

I think the sound is so unique from the camera mic because I hear limiting going on...I think there is an auto limiter and gain control on that mic and its is getting slammed so there is a combination of again maximization sound along with a gating effect and then of course the mic being overdriven into distortion. Kind of reminded me of some of the drums sounds from U2 in their early work with Brian Eno like on Zooropa...not that I'm getting Brian Eno/Larry Mullen Jr. quality results...I'm just talking about hints and flavors.

 

[sweetbeats]

I have to admit I didn't look at the videos or hear whatever cjacek heard, because the computer I'm using at the moment is temporary and doesn't have any audio hooked up. But I'm curious about what you plan on doing as far as acoustical treatment is concerned? Your room is really small, and small rooms require SERIOUS bass trapping. Would you mind sharing your plans for treatment with us? And what are you using for your "fiber panels"?

Quick sidenote...your pic of the truck packed is AWESOME!!

And your fabric frames look really impressive...I've recognized from other elements in your studio that you certainly have a talent for design and building with multiple mediums.

What are my plans for acoustic treatment? I have no idea!! Bleah.

The reality is that I KNEW the room would always have issues...the room was designed as a hybrid space that could easily be converted to a regular den/office/spare room but had essentials built in for audio purposes (acoustic isolation measures and the aforementioned low voltage chases as well as the dedicated power, etc.). So there are just as many corners as a regular room, BUT the dimensions of the room were selected to reduce nodes.

I figure because the space is cozy there really isn't a lot of room for large traps and treatment. All the gear will help to break up some of the waves, and I'll always have to expect some "character" in the room, after all the main goal of this room was to have a place in which drums could be smacked the way they were meant to be smacked and not irritate the rest of the house and neighborhood as opposed to having an acoustically flat mixing space. I will likely be purchasing some simple LENRD traps for the corners, and I have a whole bunch of nice fabric covered 2" mineral fiber acoustic panels I picked up for $70 awhile back...like 6 or 7 panels that are around 4' or 5' square...they are designed to be free standing and have connector hardware and trim along the edges and an integrated steel chase along the bottom for cable management.

So that's the plan. I'll know more when I get the mixer up on the table and get the montors mounted and hook up the analyzer mic to the RTA software and see what I've got sitting at the desk.

 

[cjacek]

Thanks, Daniel!

There just happens to be an SM-57 on a stand in that corner now...funny thing...Matilda isn't up and running yet of course but I might have something else I can track with...maybe this weekend...

An SM-57 will work nice! In fact, if you have the option, plug that into any type of tape deck (even cassette) and use some compression.

I think the sound is so unique from the camera mic because I hear limiting going on...I think there is an auto limiter and gain control on that mic and its is getting slammed so there is a combination of again maximization sound along with a gating effect and then of course the mic being overdriven into distortion.

Oh yeah, definitely, you're spot on! That's why I'd try to replicate that, albeit at higher fidelity, using that single SM-57 (placed right at the same place) and a compressor. (I'd try a high threshold 2:1 setting). Ooo and playing with the angle of that single mic to get a variety of EQ / acoustics flavors! I'm sure you can tell that I'm in love with the single mic concept. Oh and obviously any tape machine will work much better as to add that slight distortion and general flavor. Can you imagine, eventually, passing those drums through those old amazing electronics of Matilda / Soundtracs and tape? WOW! I have an inkling that this will sound great!

 

[sweetbeats]

Well I've been a little more of a lurker lately but I'm keeping busy...

Got one of my CRL SEP400A multiband dynamics units recapped and modded to compare with a stock version when the studio gets setup.

Been busy on the Ampex MM-1000 on multiple points.

Finally put together some dedicated mic preamp kits I got from Uneeda Audio for my Radio Shack PZM mics...The kits (which include the PCB's and the parts to stuff in 'em with the version I purchased...I furnished all the connectors, wiring and the project boxes) were $40 each IIRC...another $20 per kit for the rest of the stuff I suppose...so about $60 for each mic (I have two). The kits turn the RS PZM's into a P48 powered balanced unit from the stock 9V powered unbalanced unit...and the preamp is...*much* nicer. Haven't used these yet but I'm excited. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of my RS PZM's over the years...they are great for mic'ing rooms...sound natural...no fuss. But according to Uneeda Audio these kits unleash the potential of these humble mics in terms of decreased self noise, increased response and dynamic range as well as the convenience of a phantom-powered balanced connection...the stock 1/4" TS connectors get lopped off for mini XLR from the mic to the preamp and then standard XLR from the preamp out. Anyway, just one more ste toward getting several years of projects conquered. The kits came from Uneeda Audio very complete, and all the components were very nice quality including the PCB itself. Nicely done. And the instructions were outstanding as well as the after-sale support. Thumbs up.

Finally, in spite of recouperating from back surgery we've been making headway on continued work on our home remodel. A friend and I got the new master suite trimmed out (base, window and door) and later this week I'll start on the hard surface flooring. Master suite is just about for carpet to be installed and when they come to do that we'll have them reuse an old section of carpet from another place in the house for the studio. Base trim will need to be installed in the studio before that time as well as the doors so we've got some things to keep us moving.

Quoting myself here...I HAD to report back on the PZM mics. In my usual form stuff takes a long time for me to get around to tying the loose ends and I JUST tried the modded PZM mics out for the first time this weekend.

I...

Can't...

Believe...

How DIFFERENT (better) those things sound!

Oh my goodness!!

The kit was worth every penny!

The mics are A-LIVE!

They are incredibly sensitive and full...NO more thinness or
tinny-ness to them, and I had even been using the lithium AA cells as
recommended to expand the frequency response on the stock units, but the new module KILLS
what they used to be...just full, wide and balanced
sound...transformed! I had so much fun experimenting with placement.
They make it easy to capture what you hear with your ears when walking
the room. These are going to be a frequent go-to for room mics and
who knows what else. WOW!

So there's my impression...TOTALLY happy with the investment, and plus it was a fun kit to build. The quality of the supplied components was top notch, and the downloadable manual is
fantastic...very comprehensive.

Two thumbs up!

 

[briank]

I will likely be purchasing some simple LENRD traps for the corners, and I have a whole bunch of nice fabric covered 2" mineral fiber acoustic panels I picked up for $70 awhile back...like 6 or 7 panels that are around 4' or 5' square...they are designed to be free standing and have connector hardware and trim along the edges and an integrated steel chase along the bottom for cable management.

Not sure if I'm too late, but far as the LENRDs...they'll tame corner flutters but not do all that much for your low end, which is what will be the real issue in that room. Bass energy gets harder to deal with as the room size decreases. Better spend of money would be on making some tube-style bass traps for the corners--simple, functional, not too invasive. That and your 2" panels for slap absorption should help things for sure. I'd recommend double-sided panel bass traps (DIY version of RealTraps for example) in the corners, but they can be invasive in the room.


The PZM mics sound really cool! I haven't gotten to play with them much, but I could see having lots of creative fun with mic placement with em!

 

[sweetbeats]

The PZM mics sound really cool! I haven't gotten to play with them much, but I could see having lots of creative fun with mic placement with em!

I was recording upright piano from behind the musician. I had a 2' x 3' piece of 2" acoustic fiberglass panel on a music stand at about chest heightand angled down toward the keyboard...lower cover removed from the piano and top cover open. I had the mics arranged at about 90 degrees coincident pointing away from each other in an X-Y configuration. Changing the angle of incidence as well as even just moving them apart by 1' made a dramatic difference in the stereo field...phase issues were non-issues, but the BIG thing is just how they sound...very true to your ears and that's what made it easy to play with them as I could just pull the headphones off, move my head around to find what I wanted to hear and then put the mics there and *BAM*...done. And the sound it just great and you can find these mics now for pretty cheap and the kit is just top notch. Very high attention to detail. I'm just really excited because I bought these kits, like, YEARS ago with the hope that they would turn the mics into something I could mainstream for use and the result has exceeded my expectation. Its fun when you can take something you already have (originally got the mics back in the early 90's), put a little into them and get more back from them than you put into it (as far as value).

 

[sweetbeats]

I just HAD to do one more follow up to the Uneeda Audio PZM preamp kit...I just (finally) followed up on a suggestion to deal with some interference from the radio station down the street. The suggestion was to use a ceramic small value cap and strap the shield of the wire that goes from the mic to the preamp kit to the case of the preamp. Before I was able to hear the radio station through the mic. Now? I can still *barely* hear the radio station, like I almost CAN'T hear it...it is just about buried in the noise floor of the signal path and understand its a pretty tall order to get rid of the radio station interference because it is literally broadcasting 1/10 of a mile from my house and it is the highest power AM radio station in my state. Lucky me. Well, these mics are now unbelievably clean, quiet and sensitive.

Totally jazzed about these mics with Uneeda's preamp kit. Here's the real world example of how sensitive these things are: I had the PZM with the Uneeda preamp kit plugged into a mixer strip, routed to the main buss and monitored via headphones. The mic was sitting on the floor about 8' away from me. Channel fader at unity, main buss faders at unity, headphone trim at about 2~3 o'clock and as I turned up the mic pre gain to listen for the radio station interference I was given a clear sign as to just how hot the mic was...I could *clearly* hear the air whistling through my nostril hairs as I breathed and the mic was 8' AWAY!! BEHIND ME!!! AND...it sounded crystal clear and natural and prominent above the noise floor...how's THAT for sensitive and quiet?!?!? Pulled the cans off my ears AND I COULDN' EVEN HEAR THE WHISTLING WITH MY NAKED EARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a feeling these mics are going to be frequent go-to mics and up until the Uneeda preamp kit I LITERALLY hadn't used those mics in maybe 15 years...they were brittle and harsh sounding...noisy and chintzy although they've always brought in a pretty natural sound it was like a layer of cellophane was intertwined with the sound and they got ugly at high SPL *especially* with LF material. Totally transformed they are with the preamp kit. I'm pretty much shocked.

Oh and what else have I been up to? Well I HAVE been making some headway on my Ampex MM-1000 project but MOSTLY what's been going on is that I'm helatiously busy at work, and I've finished siding and caulking my house, finished installing new windows, rehabilitated exterior window and door trim we didn't replace with re-siding the house (scraping, sanding, filling, sanding, priming) so that we are now ready to paint the house...and there was a bunch of other stuff I did to get ready for our final inspection which has transpired and we passed. Sweet!

Busy Summer this year. Plus we took a 10-day family vacation road trip through 5 states, 3,400 miles with our nearly 30 year old truck and 20 year old travel trailer.

Phew! I should get back to soldering something...