Looking for WARMER/Richer vocals

[Newbie-Doo]

I don't know why folks are saying tube pre's can't warm up your mics. I picked up an Art MPA Gold tube pre earlier this year and it really warmed up ALL my mics. It works great as a recording Direct Box/Pre-amp for guitar and bass as well.

You can't beat the price. The retails for under $300. I got mine on Ebay, new in box for $225.

Most folks upgrade the tubes right away and I was no exception. It definitely improved the sound when I did.

D

 

[mattr]

My god, this thread is entertaining.

gt2008, why do you seem to think that you can buy yourself out of any situation? New gear isn't going to help you where knowledge, understanding and technique fails.

All I'm reading is things like "mic juice", "48db button", this little gem...

I do a compression pre-set in my recording program and it bypasses my having to learn about all of that stuff

...and best of all...

admittingly, all that I EQ is a dynamics processing pre-set called 4:1 very fast attack or another pre-set, and I mess with the 3 traditional knobs: high, mid, low.

I wouldn't know how to hone-in on "treble" without learning book and books on compression it seems and wave/db knowledge............................and I'm in the middle of a project that's sort of time sensitive. urgh. this sucks sometimes.

"All that I EQ is dynamics processing"... ...eh!?


Yet every time people have raised this (rather huge) issue, you seem to avoid/ignore it and scout back to moaning about your gear.


That is going to get you nowhere. Nowhere.

 

[Ephi82]

This is like the way Saturday Night Live would do a skit on Forums like this!

We have a noob chasing "warm" under the guidance of a GC clerk!

We have the thread almost hijacked by a germaphobic, "carry my own mic in the car with me" poster.

And last, we have many, many sincere posts offering rationale guidance that wont cost the noob a $

Which is ignored again and again by the noob!

Noob, please spend just a little time "learning" to use what you have rather than moaning about things you cant afford

Good luck

 

[gt2008]

This is like the way Saturday Night Live would do a skit on Forums like this!

We have a noob chasing "warm" under the guidance of a GC clerk!

We have the thread almost hijacked by a germaphobic, "carry my own mic in the car with me" poster.

And last, we have many, many sincere posts offering rationale guidance that wont cost the noob a $

Which is ignored again and again by the noob!

Noob, please spend just a little time "learning" to use what you have rather than moaning about things you cant afford

Good luck

Ya know, not for nothing but people who still going around using the "noob" moniker are seriously pompass knowitalls who shouldn't be here in the first place.

How the fu*k do you know what I ignored? I've been watching youtube tutorials on eq-ing for the last three days. That's regardless of my wanting to upgrade my pre-amp, understand? Besides, 1/2 the people in here know the exact thing I'm asking for and have recommended mics that are geared towards JUST that.

So why don't you leave forums where people share this information, because holes like you are only here to criticize people for asking because you're somehow offended at what they don't already know. Why are people like you guys here, even?

 

[gt2008]

My god, this thread is entertaining.

gt2008, why do you seem to think that you can buy yourself out of any situation? New gear isn't going to help you where knowledge, understanding and technique fails.

All I'm reading is things like "mic juice", "48db button", this little gem...


...and best of all...



"All that I EQ is dynamics processing"... ...eh!?


Yet every time people have raised this (rather huge) issue, you seem to avoid/ignore it and scout back to moaning about your gear.


That is going to get you nowhere. Nowhere.

Hey, Mr. Knowitall, I didn't avoid or ignore anything. I've been struggling with EQ, and am working on it, and was going to upgrade my preamp regardless. Your point is what exactly? If you're not here to help but only gloat about what others are ignorant of, why do you post here?

Information sharing forums are always full with a bunch of bitches who whine and cry about "go do your research" when these boards are a way of doing research in and of themselves in the first place. I'll ask again; though, why are you here?

 

[gt2008]

And for everyone's unamusement, when I put db in the place of V, it was because I was typing in a rush, which is as per usual. Hardly something to glean on.

 

[Ephi82]

Ya know, not for nothing but people who still going around using the "noob" moniker are seriously pompass knowitalls who shouldn't be here in the first place.

How the fu*k do you know what I ignored? I've been watching youtube tutorials on eq-ing for the last three days. That's regardless of my wanting to upgrade my pre-amp, understand? Besides, 1/2 the people in here know the exact thing I'm asking for and have recommended mics that are geared towards JUST that.

So why don't you leave forums where people share this information, because holes like you are only here to criticize people for asking because you're somehow offended at what they don't already know. Why are people like you guys here, even?

Lets be clear:

1) I am a noob (perhaps you aren't, but your posts would seem to indicate that you aren't an experinced engineer)

2) My post was to share MY OPINION that this thread was very funny, especially the mic germaphobe entries

3) MY OPINION, which I am allowed to share through this venue, is that your particular problem will not be solved by gear because you cant seem to afford
to spend any money AND the most likely solutions don't begin with the gear

4) It is good to hear that you are taking in learnings from other sources

5) Life's too short to waste it on anger

Peace

 

[gt2008]

I can afford plenty, I just didn't want to binge. How do you think I went out and bought the Profire 610? I just didn't want to binge spend right now, it's XMas and all.

 

[Jeff_D]

first off, never get a used mic... that's gross.

people have already sung on it, releasing their saliva and germs on it.. it's just nasty.

second, how do people expect to get the right sound right off the bat without messing around with the mix a bit? that's what the eq and plugins are for... to get that sound you're looking for.

third.. i don't have nothing else to say but needed to finish off the sequence.

ahhh... the ol mic germ myth/excuse.

 

[miroslav]

While I do think you CAN make your vocals sound "warmer" with the gear you already have (once you find out if it's working properly) and you just need to learn how to adjust EQ and maybe your mic technique, etc...

...IF you are still looking for a Buy It Now solution, I was thinking maybe an announcer's/broadcaster's mic like the Electro Voice RE20 would be the perfect choice for rap-style vocals for you....?
You will still need to learn how to manipulate audio...but the RE20 has always been just right for spoken word.

And don't trade in the Shure...either keep it for other things as it is a good mic, or sell it on eBay where you will get a better price for it than trading it in at GC.

 

[dintymoore]

If you can afford it buy a Neumann U87 and move on.

Always buy used if you can.

 

[NYMorningstar]

On my Delta 101LT's control panel you can select if the inputs and outputs are +4dB, zero or -10dB.
You might check to see if you have that. I run them all at +4dB.

Good point. It sure would explain why he would need to run the gain almost to max. It also looks like he may have been using nunbalanced mic cable but regardless he should check out your suggestion still and learn the difference.

 

[gt2008]

Good point. It sure would explain why he would need to run the gain almost to max. It also looks like he may have been using nunbalanced mic cable but regardless he should check out your suggestion still and learn the difference.

I've already addressed this but I'll do so again.

In the control panel, my settings only go from -50db to 0db. I've got it turned up to zero.

I have an open support request in with M-Audio and jusging by the FAQ's and what-not, I've got a bad preamp. Terrific!!~

 

[miroslav]

Yes...but what about +4/-10 options...do you have them?
That will set the overall reference level and it WOULD affect amount of signal you have going in if it is set incorrectly (and that is separate from the -50 to 0 setting of the volume knob).

Check that also before you send the preamp back...just to be sure.

 

[gt2008]

i dont have those options.

 

[kcearl]

I don't know why folks are saying tube pre's can't warm up your mics. I picked up an Art MPA Gold tube pre earlier this year and it really warmed up ALL my mics. It works great as a recording Direct Box/Pre-amp for guitar and bass as well.

You can't beat the price. The retails for under $300. I got mine on Ebay, new in box for $225.

Most folks upgrade the tubes right away and I was no exception. It definitely improved the sound when I did.

D

I use tube pre's, Ive changed the tubes, Ive noticed an improvement, they definitely work..I get clean gain and a fuller sound...yup I know I cant quantify fatter, fuller, or warmer, or whatever..but it does for want of better descriptions

if no one else does then tough...Im not here for anyone else

 

[NYMorningstar]

You might want to try using the Lexicon as the preamp for your 610. It just may be the pre's on the 610 are not adequate for the mic you are using. Make sure you are using a balanced cable too.

Here's a bit of good info for those who have a spare minute or two:

Different devices operate at different signal levels, so first off we need a way of describing those signal levels. Audio signals are passed around analogue equipment as varying signal voltages.

Microphones typically generate a few millivolts (thousandths of a Volt), whereas ‘line-level’ equipment operates with signals close to a Volt, and the outputs of power amplifiers feeding loudspeakers may be close to a hundred Volts. Such a wide range of signal voltages — from 0.001V to 100V — is a little inconvenient to work with, so it has long been the practice to use a decibel scale instead.

The decibel (or dB) represents the ratio of two signal levels. That could be the ratio of the input signal feeding an amplifier and its output signal, which would indicate the gain of the amplifier. Or it could be the level of a signal compared to a fixed reference value, which would give a number representing its relative amplitude. Where fixed references are used, another letter is added to the dB to indicate which reference is in use.

There are lots of different reference standards in audio, but one of the most common is the dBu. The reference signal level, or 0dBu, is defined as an average signal voltage of 0.775V.

For largely historical reasons most analogue equipment is designed to operate with a nominal signal level of +4dBu (which is 1.228V), and you’ll often see that mentioned in the technical specifications of professional analogue equipment. This is what is generally meant by the term ‘line level.’ However, most semi-pro equipment is designed to operate at a much lower nominal signal level, usually denoted as -10dBV. That’s 10dB below a reference level of one Volt (hence the big V in dBV), which works out to a signal level of 316mV.

The relationship between dBu and dBV isn’t immediately obvious, although it can be calculated fairly easily — but a useful rule of thumb to remember is that -10dBV is almost 12dB lower than +4dBu. That’s handy to know if you are trying to connect semi-pro and professional equipment together.

A semi-pro product receiving the output from a professional one will see a signal level some 12dB hotter than it is designed for, and so is likely to overload easily. Going the other way and hooking up a semi-pro machine’s output to a professional console, you’ll need to dial in an extra 12dB of gain to get the signal up to professional line level.

 

[gt2008]

You might want to try using the Lexicon as the preamp for your 610. It just may be the pre's on the 610 are not adequate for the mic you are using. Make sure you are using a balanced cable too.

Here's a bit of good info for those who have a spare minute or two:

Different devices operate at different signal levels, so first off we need a way of describing those signal levels. Audio signals are passed around analogue equipment as varying signal voltages.

Microphones typically generate a few millivolts (thousandths of a Volt), whereas ‘line-level’ equipment operates with signals close to a Volt, and the outputs of power amplifiers feeding loudspeakers may be close to a hundred Volts. Such a wide range of signal voltages — from 0.001V to 100V — is a little inconvenient to work with, so it has long been the practice to use a decibel scale instead.

The decibel (or dB) represents the ratio of two signal levels. That could be the ratio of the input signal feeding an amplifier and its output signal, which would indicate the gain of the amplifier. Or it could be the level of a signal compared to a fixed reference value, which would give a number representing its relative amplitude. Where fixed references are used, another letter is added to the dB to indicate which reference is in use.

There are lots of different reference standards in audio, but one of the most common is the dBu. The reference signal level, or 0dBu, is defined as an average signal voltage of 0.775V.

For largely historical reasons most analogue equipment is designed to operate with a nominal signal level of +4dBu (which is 1.228V), and you’ll often see that mentioned in the technical specifications of professional analogue equipment. This is what is generally meant by the term ‘line level.’ However, most semi-pro equipment is designed to operate at a much lower nominal signal level, usually denoted as -10dBV. That’s 10dB below a reference level of one Volt (hence the big V in dBV), which works out to a signal level of 316mV.

The relationship between dBu and dBV isn’t immediately obvious, although it can be calculated fairly easily — but a useful rule of thumb to remember is that -10dBV is almost 12dB lower than +4dBu. That’s handy to know if you are trying to connect semi-pro and professional equipment together.

A semi-pro product receiving the output from a professional one will see a signal level some 12dB hotter than it is designed for, and so is likely to overload easily. Going the other way and hooking up a semi-pro machine’s output to a professional console, you’ll need to dial in an extra 12dB of gain to get the signal up to professional line level.

Thanks for the reaD. The Lexicon Pre-Amps are actually a step-down from the Profire's preamps, however. I don't know that it's a Quality vs. Quality issue with the KSM-32 and the 610 either because I read a lot up on the thing before I bought it and people recommended it for the KSM-32. (they could be full of it I suppose).

I'm exchanging the Profire for another one to see if its preamp is faulty. If I still have the same issue afterward, I will have to simply wait for support's reaction. (still waiting on that).

Most of the FAQ's and Forum threads regarding this same issue resulted in saying it was a faulty preamp, which is where I've gotten my theory from. We'll see when I make the swap tonight I guess.

 

[dintymoore]

My guess is that if you tried my gross, used U87 through your Lexicon's preamps you would have said "that's it!!!".

I've used a Summit tube pre on a lot of my CD's, that's a $2,700 mic pre, and I never noticed that it made the mic sound "warmer"... it made the mic sound louder.

If the sound isn't warm before it gets to your preamp it's too late already.

 

[gt2008]

My guess is that if you tried my gross, used U87 through your Lexicon's preamps you would have said "that's it!!!".

I've used a Summit tube pre on a lot of my CD's, that's a $2,700 mic pre, and I never noticed that it made the mic sound "warmer"... it made the mic sound louder.

If the sound isn't warm before it gets to your preamp it's too late already.

My next purchase is one of the mic's recommended as fuller/warmer. For now; though, I've always been meaning to Ditch the Lexicon Regardless.

When I played my monitors through the Profire 610 (KRK Rockit 5's) they sounded pristine compared to through the Omega. So I am pleased with the new interface as a whole, it's just that it's preamp is faulty and needs to be turned to full power for some reason to juice the KSM-32. It's supposedly a better pre than the Omega, also, so I can't imagine me having two volume "clicks" of play when adjusting my mic's volume and I began to research. Something's up with it. We'll see when I make the exchange and get a new Profire 610 if it resolves the issue. If it doesn't, we've got much larger probs.