Completely new to tape recording, buying a Tascam MF-P01 to take in to rehab with me, can I ask a couple very basic questions?

A

AtlasSound

New member
Hello, I’ve tried posting this on Reddit but it keeps getting removed, I hope it’s okay to ask this in here, I’m sorry if it’s not!

So I’m going to be in rehab for 3 months, and to keep me going I am planning to record an album/collection (just acoustic guitar and vocals) of my songs on to a Tascam MF-P01 which I am going to buy. I like being hands on and don’t have a laptop or anything so I think it’s a good idea and I’m excited to get started, but I have 2 simple questions which I haven’t been able to find clear (for a newbie) answers for.

1. What mic can I use for this? I just need to record acoustic guitar and vocals with it, and I guess I need some kind of adapter to make it go in to the line in input on the unit.
2. Do I need a preamp for the mic? Is there anything else I need?

I think that’s all I need to know, my plan is to get my songs down on there and then hand the tape to my friend so he can put it on a computer and have it ready for me when I come out.

Thanks for reading and again I apologise if I can’t ask something like this, I’m finding the rules of posting things online a bit baffling.

P.S. I am on a budget, I don’t have much money but I’m willing to spend a bit on this as I think it’s really going to help me through this weird and difficult time.
 
This would be a decent mic to start : https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/microphones/pga48?variant=PGA48-QTR .

It can come with the appropriate cable (XLR-1/4) if ordered as such. Reading the manual, it doesn't appear as if a pre-amp is needed - the Shure mic does not require phantom power either, so just plug-n-play. You may also want to get some type of mic stand if needed in your situation.

You'll probably want some headphones. That's a whole other bag of worms :listeningmusic:

 
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The answer to the question about re-using tapes is a good point. Yes, they do wear out and the tapes dirty the machines up so cleaning is important. Tapes are disposable really - treat them as always one step from breaking.

I've deleted the duplicate topic, no sense having two.
 
Do you already own the recorder? If not I would strongly recommend getting a digital equivalent: Zoom H4N. It may be detrimental to the idea of sharing the tape with your friend (if his is also a tape 4-track), but nowadays that's the easy, fast way to do it. If you (or your friend) have as little as a laptop with a basic

DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) like Audacity or perhaps Reaper, "making music" is a lot easier that way.

A good cheap mic would be Shure SM57, which is used by professionals for almost any source, and non-professionals for even those the professionals might rather not. If you're recording your guitar and vocal separately, you could get one SM57 and one SM58 -- the latter is similar to the former but optimized for vocals.

I should add that, while many people get a cheap LDC -- like an Audio Technica AT2020 -- for a first mic, I started with a Shure SM58 and I'm grateful that I did. It's better to start with a workhorse version of a jack-of-all-trades than a cheap version of a condenser mic.

Preamp? Nope. There are preamps inside any portable recorder like that one. Outboard preamps are for people who are trying to flex their studio to clients (just kidding, but not as much as you might think lol).

Hope that helps... and welcome to HR! No questions are too "basic and boring" 'round here!
 
Serendipity Records said:
Do you already own the recorder? If not I would strongly recommend getting a digital equivalent: Zoom H4N. It may be detrimental to the idea of sharing the tape with your friend (if his is also a tape 4-track), but nowadays that's the easy, fast way to do it. If you (or your friend) have as little as a laptop with a basic

DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) like Audacity or perhaps Reaper, "making music" is a lot easier that way.

A good cheap mic would be Shure SM57, which is used by professionals for almost any source, and non-professionals for even those the professionals might rather not. If you're recording your guitar and vocal separately, you could get one SM57 and one SM58 -- the latter is similar to the former but optimized for vocals.

I should add that, while many people get a cheap LDC -- like an Audio Technica AT2020 -- for a first mic, I started with a Shure SM58 and I'm grateful that I did. It's better to start with a workhorse version of a jack-of-all-trades than a cheap version of a condenser mic.

Preamp? Nope. There are preamps inside any portable recorder like that one. Outboard preamps are for people who are trying to flex their studio to clients (just kidding, but not as much as you might think lol).

Hope that helps... and welcome to HR! No questions are too "basic and boring" 'round here!
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Excellent thank you so much for the reply, I see your point about the digital equivalent being a better option but for my situation I’m going with tape because I won’t have a laptop where I’m going so I do think I will go for the tape recorder so that I have everything I need in one simple thing - unless the zoom h4n can also function in the same way, i.e. a standalone recording device which could be a stopgap for eventually getting it on a computer and playing around with it. My plan is basically to have this basic recording of my songs on tape (there is an emotional element here too in that I’m going to be going through an unusual time but these recordings will sort of mark my progress in recovery) and then, when I’m out in the world again, to link up with my friends and throw it in to a DAW and add bass and piano etc. but keeping that raw tape sound (if there is such a thing, this is all stuff I will be figuring out for the first time as I’m used to DAWs).

The previous poster suggested a Shure PGA48, so I’ll do a bit of research on that and the two mics you suggested. Thank you for your reply I am excited to get started on this.
 
rob aylestone said:
The answer to the question about re-using tapes is a good point. Yes, they do wear out and the tapes dirty the machines up so cleaning is important. Tapes are disposable really - treat them as always one step from breaking.

I've deleted the duplicate topic, no sense having two.
Click to expand...
Cool, thank you for your reply and yeah there was no point in the 2 threads I was just sort of panicking trying to find the right place so cheers for that.

Okay, I will bear that in mind, so once I’ve got the songs down I need to be careful not to destroy them with too many takes and mishandling etc. I understand that I should get some chrome tape - I saw the exact brand somewhere I shall find it. Thank you for helping I’m totally new but am excited to play around with this, I like things that are hands on like I’ve got a Korg EMX which is just really fun so yeah, thank you.
 
spantini said:
This would be a decent mic to start : https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/microphones/pga48?variant=PGA48-QTR .

It can come with the appropriate cable (XLR-1/4) if ordered as such. Reading the manual, it doesn't appear as if a pre-amp is needed - the Shure mic does not require phantom power either, so just plug-n-play. You may also want to get some type of mic stand if needed in your situation.

You'll probably want some headphones. That's a whole other bag of worms :listeningmusic:

Click to expand...
Hello, thank you for reading the manual for me I really appreciate that! Just had a read through and it seems simpler than I thought, I won’t have a stereo mastering thing like it specifies in the manual but I’m planning to record the songs on tape just with the MF-P01 and then when I’m back in the world I’ll link up with my friend who has a similar thing and we will then put it in a DAW and add a few things, I’m going to order that mic you mentioned. I really appreciate the help I’m pretty clueless.
 
AtlasSound said:
Excellent thank you so much for the reply, I see your point about the digital equivalent being a better option but for my situation I’m going with tape because I won’t have a laptop where I’m going so I do think I will go for the tape recorder so that I have everything I need in one simple thing - unless the zoom h4n can also function in the same way, i.e. a standalone recording device which could be a stopgap for eventually getting it on a computer and playing around with it. My plan is basically to have this basic recording of my songs on tape (there is an emotional element here too in that I’m going to be going through an unusual time but these recordings will sort of mark my progress in recovery) and then, when I’m out in the world again, to link up with my friends and throw it in to a DAW and add bass and piano etc. but keeping that raw tape sound (if there is such a thing, this is all stuff I will be figuring out for the first time as I’m used to DAWs).
Click to expand...
"Cassette sound" and "tape sound" are somewhat similar but the sound you're referring to right now is not achieved on portable recorders like these. It's like tube preamps -- high-level stuff, expensive and quite useless for you and me. From what you just added to my understanding of your situation, there's no advantage to tape vs. digital. The medium would be an SD card instead of a cassette. Like photo which used to be taken on film, now you have an SD card which will be easier to use with a digital system (aka computer).
AtlasSound said:
The previous poster suggested a Shure PGA48, so I’ll do a bit of research on that and the two mics you suggested. Thank you for your reply I am excited to get started on this.
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PGA48 is cheaper, not a huge difference -- they're the same type of mic by the same company. I would personally go ahead though and get the SM57 and/or SM58 if you can.

Best of luck BTW going through that, hope all goes well for you!
 
AtlasSound said:
. . . I understand that I should get some chrome tape - I saw the exact brand somewhere I shall find it. . .
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Only one side of the tape will be used for 4 tracks. Whatever length tape you choose, the recording time will be halved - C60 tape will run for 30 minutes, etc.
 
I know it's the "in thing" to go old school cassette, but there's a reason why they aren't made anymore. You're dealing with 50 year old technology, with 20 year old rubber parts that can and probably have degraded. Moving parts wear out. What can you do if the rubber belt or idler roller goes bad while you're in rehab?

For recording, the H4n is a nice recorder, but it really doesn't have a facility to mix down to a stereo track. It is a field recorder, designed to capture an event.

Better for your purpose would be something like the Tascam DP-03SD or DP24SD which would give you more channels to work with (in case you want to do harmonies, or extra guitar parts) and being a "portastudio" you have the facility to mix down to a stereo track with the internal effects. They are the digital successor to the cassette portastudio without the problems of the tape. I believe Spantini used to use a Tascam DP03. I have a Zoom R24 and have recorded and mixed down entire songs on it. (you don't HAVE to use all 24 tracks!) My H4n was good for capturing a few tracks but eventually I had to dump them to my DAW to finish the work.

You can get 10 16GB SD cards and have enough recording space to make hundreds of hours of recordings. They don't take up much space, and will probably cost much less that 10 cassettes which would only give you a few hours of recording time.
 
I would definitely NOT get a cassette machine! As others have said they need constant cleaning (will you be allowed ISOPROAlcohol?) and your usage is liable to be intense and I bet it will break. Then you are stuck.

Now IF you could buy that recorder from a dealer who has expertly refurbished it and will give you a warranty, maybe fine but that is going to cost the earth IF you can find one!

I suggest something like the Tascam Pro 40X. Two capacitor mics and two more XLR inputs. Not sure but I think you can do basic mixdowns on it? Need good eyes! My son has one and runs it on those uber cheap phone backup batteries and they charge from any 5V phone charger with USB. Get in a few SDcards.

A dynamic will be fine for vocals but you will struggle for level with an acoustic guitar. A small mixer would add great flexibility to the setup. Headphones need to be closed back unless you can afford two sets.

Don't forget a couple of mic stands!

Dave.
 
spantini said:
Only one side of the tape will be used for 4 tracks. Whatever length tape you choose, the recording time will be halved - C60 tape will run for 30 minutes, etc.
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At normal speed. Many 4-trackers run at double speed, so a C60 gets you 15 minutes.

A digital standalone device would be far better. If it has removable media (e.g. SD card), perhaps the friend could bring a fresh one and exchange them at visits. I think the Zoom R12 might be a good solution.
 
TalismanRich said:
I know it's the "in thing" to go old school cassette, but there's a reason why they aren't made anymore. You're dealing with 50 year old technology, with 20 year old rubber parts that can and probably have degraded. Moving parts wear out. What can you do if the rubber belt or idler roller goes bad while you're in rehab?

For recording, the H4n is a nice recorder, but it really doesn't have a facility to mix down to a stereo track. It is a field recorder, designed to capture an event.

Better for your purpose would be something like the Tascam DP-03SD or DP24SD which would give you more channels to work with (in case you want to do harmonies, or extra guitar parts) and being a "portastudio" you have the facility to mix down to a stereo track with the internal effects. They are the digital successor to the cassette portastudio without the problems of the tape. I believe Spantini used to use a Tascam DP03. I have a Zoom R24 and have recorded and mixed down entire songs on it. (you don't HAVE to use all 24 tracks!) My H4n was good for capturing a few tracks but eventually I had to dump them to my DAW to finish the work.

You can get 10 16GB SD cards and have enough recording space to make hundreds of hours of recordings. They don't take up much space, and will probably cost much less that 10 cassettes which would only give you a few hours of recording time.
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okay I get where everyone is coming from, I suppose I may have been a bit swayed by the novelty of tape too - do you know anything about a Tascam DP-006? Seems to be a similar but cheaper version of what you were suggesting.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
At normal speed. Many 4-trackers run at double speed, so a C60 gets you 15 minutes.

A digital standalone device would be far better. If it has removable media (e.g. SD card), perhaps the friend could bring a fresh one and exchange them at visits. I think the Zoom R12 might be a good solution.
Click to expand...
thanks for your help, I have accepted that a digital portastudio would be better, I'm looking at the DP-008 EX as I've found a cheap one and it has effects, or at least it has reverb, does anyone know if this would be good for my purposes? The other option is to buy a cheap laptop and get a plug n' play mic, but that seems like it would be admitting defeat somehow.
 
AtlasSound said:
thanks for your help, I have accepted that a digital portastudio would be better, I'm looking at the DP-008 EX as I've found a cheap one and it has effects, or at least it has reverb, does anyone know if this would be good for my purposes? The other option is to buy a cheap laptop and get a plug n' play mic, but that seems like it would be admitting defeat somehow.
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Ah, now you're talking! The 008 EX has two XLR mic inputs. There is a Behringer dynamic mic, the XM 8500 which is only about £25 but is remarkably good for vocal work. IMHO you will still need a capacitor mic for the guitar.

A laptop would indeed be a very good idea but to be useful you would need to partner it with an Audio Interface. Just goes on getting harder and more money don't it!

Dave.
 
You should be able to be creative, just focusing on voice and acoustic guitar.
Just strum a few chords, and a song will come along.
I am in the 'go digital' camp.
I just looked up Tascam Portastudios, and came accross the DP-008EX, which seems to offer a lot in a small package for around $200 new.
That's worth the money, if you have it. All the recordings will be computer friendly, from the start.

P.S. Good luck with sorting yourself out.
 
I agree with getting the DP008EX. XLR inputs for mics, and phantom power for condenser mics. You have direct inputs for guitar if you want. It has USB so you can easily transfer files to computer later. It has effects, compressor, EQ, Reverb, panning, a tuner and metronome. Those are the basics that everyone should have. You have a stereo track available for mix down.

Make sure you get a 5V power supply, you don't want to be going through batteries every day, although you could get some NiMH rechargables to keep things portable. Get 8 of them so you can swap them out (4 at a time). Grab a pack of SD cards off Amazon. A 5 pack of Sandisk Ultra 16GB cards is around $35.

An MXL V67G pack with a cable and windscreen runs about $100. It's a very decent sounding mic. Sometimes you can catch one for less if you shop around. You could also look at several small condenser mics if you are just doing acoustic guitar. You can get something like a pair if Samson C02 SDC mics for $130. Behringer B2 mics are $60 a pair. The X8500 mentioned above and a pair of SDCs will give you plenty of options. A couple of mic stands and cables and a pop filter and you should be good to go.
 
Ae we not making this very complicated? If hes going away for three months, and is taking a laptop, then just buying a zoom or tascam recorder with stereo mics, a cable and a few sd cards would let you record, snd with even a freeby daw or cheap one, edit and tweak what the recorder captures. They've got a mic stand hole on them too. Job done, reliable and simple workflow.
 
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