I don't get this whole "solder" thing.

[VomitHatSteve]

So I'm trying to build a pickup from scratch, and I've reached the point where I'm soldering all the cables together. This is extremely frustrating. I suppose I could have anticipated that doing anything with 42 gauge wire would be challenging (seriously, my hair has greater tensile strength than this crap!), but the whole soldering process just doesn't make sense to me.

The fact that the solder melts too quickly is find with me. (I've worked with a rod welder before, so I can cope.) It's the fact that the melted solder doesn't stick to anything except other solder that upsets me!
Before I started, I tried to tin the iron, but the solder mostly just dripped onto my working surface. Once I do get to the actual soldering, the stuff rolls right off of whatever it's supposed to be sticking together!

Is this seriously the best alloy (is that the right word?) that we have for this kind of work? No one's been able to come up with a blend of metals with a low melting point that does anything but evaporate and drip on the table?!?

Ok. I'm done. I just needed to rant for a while. Thanks for reading.

 

[dintymoore]

Soldering is an art.

There's a huge range in soldering guns/pencils. I know a guy who is incredible at it... his rig cost several hundreds.

I'm not into it like him (he's a Yamaha repairman) but I've done many repairs and I use a 10W Weller pencil, a 25W pencil and a Weller gun that's 100/140W. For the smaller stuff the 10W is sometimes too big. They sell stuff called soldering flux which can help things, as well as different ratio solder. I'd have to see what you're doing in real life to really see what you are doing wrong. Soldering either goes fast and smooth or rough and bumpy.

It's real important to clean off the things you are going to solder. I use fine sandpaper sometimes. Sometimes scraping with a sharp blade is enough.

The idea is to heat up the two things that you want to apply solder together and then let the solder flow over them, not melt the solder and let it flow over the two things when they are cold. I cannot overemphasize how important that concept is, it is the fundamental rule of soldering.

Another good rule is to always make a mechanical connection before soldering. In other words, don't just lie a wire on something and solder it, if you can, poke a wire through a hole and bend it (that's the mechanical connection) and then solder it.

When you do it right, soldering is very fast. When it goes slow is when things starts going down the toilet.

Even though I'm right handed I usually hold my soldering pencil or gun in my left and the solder in the right, it works better.

In the hand that you hold your gun or pencil, always steady your hand on something - stick out your pinky and touch the table - anything. No one can hold their hand out in the middle of the air steady.

For soldering guns, forget the tips they sell, make your own from standard house wire, I've been doing that forever.

Everything you solder should be, ideally, shiny like a shiny penny. That's a key to getting the solder to flow.

It might help to get a pair of reading glasses that act as magnifying glasses.

I work on a concrete floor, and when I'm not actually soldering, I put the gun on the floor under my workbench. That way it doesn't fall off, burn something on the table or burn me.

For soldering pencils those ceramic coffee mugs with super wide bases (like people use in cars) are the cat's meow for putting your pencil in while you're working.

When I was about 13 my Dad set up all this stuff on the dining room table and "made me" learn this awful soldering stuff, I remember that evening, I was all grumpy - "why is he making me do this?".

 

[VomitHatSteve]

The idea is to heat up the two things that you want to apply solder together and then let the solder flow over them, not melt the solder and let it flow over the two things when they are cold. I cannot overemphasize how important that concept is, it is the fundamental rule of soldering.

Oh. Well, you learn something new every day I guess. (Actually, I've probably been told that before; I just forgot.)

Thanks for the tips. Some of them I'd figured out already (don't burn yourself, it's easier if your wires are already hooked together beforehand, etc.), but I did not know about heating the targets.

Well, the thing I tried to solder this evening didn't work, so I guess I'll get to try again and apply these lessons. Practice makes perfect, huh?

By the way, you mentioned building your own soldering iron tip. Any recommendations for how to do that?

 

[MajorTom]

You are scraping the enamel off of the 42 gauge wire where you want to solder it, right? Solder won't stick to enamel. The tricky part here is to scrape off the enamel without destroying the wire. I use a small flat blade screwdriver that is "sharp" on the the end (not rounded off). When I have tried a knife blade, it seems to take too much of the copper with it and destroys it. Fine sandpaper might work...

What kind of solder are you using? If you are using silver solder, I would recommend using the much easier lead / tin stuff, and it must have the rosin core. I recommend a small diameter. Never use acid core solder for electrical stuff. I also recommend using a soldering iron with an iron clad tip - they don't get eaten away from the flux and have to be re-shaped and re-tinned constantly, once tinned they stay tinned. All you do is wipe them on a damp cellulose sponge to keep them clean.

The basic principle is that you heat up the metals that are to be joined; they both have to be hot enough to melt the solder or else it won't bond to them. You can't apply solder like hot glue. The metals have to be very clean - no oxidation. The rosin flux helps clean the metal, but if it is visibly oxidized it won't bond.

Not all metals can be bonded with solder, at least not easily; stainless steel, and aluminum for example. Some cheap connectors, like from Radio Shack, have a plating on the solder tabs that just don't want to take solder - if you scrape that plating off, like with a file, the solder will stick. If the metal has too much mass, it will suck away the heat, and will never get hot enough to bond - this depends of course, on the size (wattage) of the iron. For example - copper takes solder easily if it is clean, but a low watt iron will never be able to solder a wire onto a piece of copper pipe, the pipe has too much mass. Humbucker covers are hard to solder or desolder onto a pickup base, modern ones are even worse, the wax inside is also sucking away the heat.

One technique that I use often, especially for more difficult or hard to reach jobs is to pre tin each item that is to be joined. For example, if I were to be wiring in a new pot in a guitar with a tight control cavity, I would scrape the terminals (to get rid of the oxidation) and tin them. I would tin the end of the wire by itself, then when I go to join them together, it will go quickly and easily. When soldering a pickup winding wire, I would definitely pre-tin the wire and whatever it is getting soldered to.
.

 

[Lt. Bob]

it's easier if your wires are already hooked together beforehand, etc

it's not easier ..... it's mandatory.
All electrical connections should always be manually tight to where they'd work even if it wasn't soldered...........THEN solder them.



Fine sandpaper is what you want to use to remove the enamel insulation off that p'up wire.



You don't want to try making your own soldering tip at this point if you are still learning the very basics of soldering.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

So how does one pre-tin the wires then (especially the pickup wire)?
You heat the wire with the iron then touch the solder to the wire then? Does that work for pickup wire?

 

[Lt. Bob]

So how does one pre-tin the wires then (especially the pickup wire)?
You heat the wire with the iron then touch the solder to the wire then? Does that work for pickup wire?

yeah but that small wire can burn up too so you have to be careful.
Plus .... pre-tinning is often for when you want to just hold a wire to the connection and have it stay after soldering.
Since I make a point of always having a good mechanical connection first (such as having the wire wrapped tightly around whatever you're soldering it to), pretinning can make it harder to wrap a wire or tie it to another wire so for small stuff like p'up wire, I rarely pre-tin, especially wire that I've just scraped the insulation off of; when the metal's fresh like that, solder usually flows onto it quite easily so as soon as you've heated the connection, that's all it takes most of the time.

Pre-tinning is useful when you're having a hard time getting heat to something but it's not always necessary.

 

[ez_willis]

So I'm trying to build a pickup from scratch

they sell them as a complete package for really cheap, ya know.

 

[MajorTom]

Most guys do the mechanical connection thing - put the wire thru the hole in the terminal, bend it around so it stays there, then solder the whole thing. Nothing wrong with that at all. I am the exception to the rule with the way I usually do the pre-tinning, my personal preference, but there is a little bit of method to my madness though, aside from the soldering in tight places reason.

First, when you bend the wire around, if you ever want to undo it later, it makes it a little more difficult, depending, of course, on how much you bend the wire. When you go to undo it, you have to melt the solder and unbend the wire while the solder is still molten. If you pull on it, sometimes it will release suddenly and splash hot solder, sometimes it just doesn't want to come out easily. You can cut it and then deal with extracting the short bit of wire left in there. Like in a guitar, I might want to change those pickups later, so I solder the leads in a way that can be easily unsoldered, plus, I just like to keep my hot-iron-inside-the-control-cavity time to a minimum. I guess its laziness...

Second, there are some "mechanical" reasons to pre-tin. A couple examples - Soldering a component like a cap that could be damaged from excess heat on to a tone control - if the pot's terminals are a bit oxidized, the iron may have to stay on there a bit longer than usual. Likewise, soldering a cap on to something with mass, like the case of the pot, which will take longer to heat up. In either case pre-tinning reduces the risk of trashing the cap from heat. Some wire's insulation likes to melt easily, the longer the iron is heating a joint, the more insulation will melt, which looks messy to me, plus the vapors from melting/burning plastic are probably not good to breathe, I do like to keep that to a minimum. Also, sometimes things just don't want to take solder very well, like you have a wire inside a terminal's hole wrapped around, and the terminal just won't take the solder...now you have to undo it, but the wire did take the solder, and there's a bunch of flux on there....messy. Pre-tinning assures me that when I go to do the joint, both items are going to take the solder.

Oh yeah, it is a good idea to have a small fan blowing the vapors from burning plastic, flux and whatever away from you during soldering.

 

[MajorTom]

Most guys do the mechanical connection thing - put the wire thru the hole in the terminal, bend it around so it stays there, then solder the whole thing. Nothing wrong with that at all. I am the exception to the rule with the way I usually do the pre-tinning (but not always), there is a little bit of method to my madness though, aside from the soldering in tight places reason.

First, when you bend the wire around, if you ever want to undo it later, it makes it a little more difficult, depending, of course, on how much you bend the wire. When you go to undo it, you have to melt the solder and unbend the wire while the solder is still molten. If you pull on it, sometimes it will release suddenly and splash hot solder, sometimes it just doesn't want to come out easily. You can cut it and then deal with extracting the short bit of wire left in there. Like in a guitar, I might want to change those pickups later, so I solder the leads in a way that can be easily unsoldered, plus, I just like to keep my hot-iron-inside-the-control-cavity time to a minimum. With a pre-tinned wire into a pre-tinned pot terminal, for example, I just place it in the hole and solder, I don't bend the tinned wire. I guess its laziness...

Second, there are some "mechanical" reasons to pre-tin. A couple examples - Soldering a component like a cap that could be damaged from excess heat on to a tone control - if the pot's terminals are a bit oxidized, the iron may have to stay on there a bit longer than usual. Likewise, soldering a cap on to something with mass, like the case of the pot, which will take longer to heat up. In either case pre-tinning reduces the risk of trashing the cap from heat. Some wire's insulation likes to melt easily, the longer the iron is heating a joint, the more insulation will melt, which looks messy to me, plus the vapors from melting/burning plastic are probably not good to breathe, I do like to keep that to a minimum. Also, sometimes things just don't want to take solder very well, like you have a wire inside a terminal's hole wrapped around, and the terminal just won't take the solder...now you have to undo it, but the wire did take the solder, and there's a bunch of flux on there....messy. Pre-tinning assures me that when I go to do the joint, both items are going to take the solder.

Oh yeah, it is a good idea to have a small fan blowing the vapors from burning plastic, flux and whatever away from you during soldering.

 

[dintymoore]

...you mentioned building your own soldering iron tip. Any recommendations for how to do that?

Years ago I learned that if you strip regular house wire (the thicker 12 gauge Romex I think) you can make your own soldering tips for my trusty Weller 100/140W gun. Just cut and strip some and bend it like in the pic below. I've been doing that since the 70's. If I didn't do stuff like that, roof my own house and fix my car's ac I wouldn't have been able to afford my Neumann mics. I use that Weller gun for everything except small stuff. All my mic cables and guitar cables are done with that gun.

See how black the tip is on my gun? It will never work like that. Every time I use it I sand the tip (while it's heating up!) for maybe 10 seconds 'til it's shiny then melt some solder on it. Only then, when it's totally shiny, will it work right. It might need sanding and re-tinning in 5 minutes, and that's ok, I do it constantly throughout a soldering session. After you tin it you can remove extra solder on a wet sponge or if you like to walk on the wild side, by flicking it onto the cement floor.

It helps if you get some sort of place to work. Note the clamp-on lamp , seat from '85 Caprice Classic (passenger side has left arm rest that's great for right handed guitarists) and Jaco the Dog. I put all my soldering stuff in that one blue bag on the workbench so I can grab that and take it anywhere and have everything.

1 For small stuff I use a 10W Weller pencil and it's in a ceramic coffee mug - the type they make with wide bases. You can let it heat up in there, it's safe and works.
2 Cheap $10 (on sale) Craftsman volt/ohm meter, as long as it has audible continuity (makes a buzzer sound) it's all you need.
3 This is an odd contraption with alligator clips on arms and a magnifying glass - it's borderline and I don't use it much... maybe the arms to hold wires when I'm making mic cables.
4 To suck up solder (clean up old stuff or you put too much on) these simple bulbs work. You need two because they clog up in the middle of using them all the time.
5 magnifying glasses
6 they make different types of solder in different ratios
7 sometimes a small board and clamps are great for holding things in place while you solder. If I'm working in a car interior or someplace where solder can drip I'll use a piece of wood like that - a portable workbench
8 the oldest trick in the book - put a rubber band around the handles of a pair of pliers and that's what I usually use to hold parts I'm soldering
9 I put my soldering gun and heat gun (used for heat shrink tubing) under the front of my workbench unless I'm actually using them. It prevents burns and the gun falling off.

 

[ausrock]

Love the "bluey" lying on guard .

 

[dintymoore]

Love the "bluey" lying on guard .

Ya he's a cool guy but not real happy at the moment - his face is all swollen up with an infected tooth. Took him to the vet yesterday so he's on antibiotics now and will have it out next week.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

they sell them as a complete package for really cheap, ya know.

Yeah, but that's no fun!

 

[MCI2424]

So I'm trying to build a pickup from scratch, and I've reached the point where I'm soldering all the cables together. This is extremely frustrating. I suppose I could have anticipated that doing anything with 42 gauge wire would be challenging (seriously, my hair has greater tensile strength than this crap!), but the whole soldering process just doesn't make sense to me.

The fact that the solder melts too quickly is find with me. (I've worked with a rod welder before, so I can cope.) It's the fact that the melted solder doesn't stick to anything except other solder that upsets me!
Before I started, I tried to tin the iron, but the solder mostly just dripped onto my working surface. Once I do get to the actual soldering, the stuff rolls right off of whatever it's supposed to be sticking together!

Is this seriously the best alloy (is that the right word?) that we have for this kind of work? No one's been able to come up with a blend of metals with a low melting point that does anything but evaporate and drip on the table?!?

Ok. I'm done. I just needed to rant for a while. Thanks for reading.

You have to use electronic solder (with flux core) OR use flux before you solder (solid core)

 

[slowmotion]

I'm a fan of tinning everything beforehand; and definitely rubbing every flat surface I am soldering to (ie the back of pots or the ground of a TS/TRS plug etc etc) with fine-ish (800+) with wet&dry sandpaper immediately before soldering. Really helps IMO and makes my life easier.

Splash out and buy a proper soldering iron with adjustable temp AND a temp meter. Might cost a bit, but it's worth it. Make sure you get an iron with a replaceable tip!!! You WILL need to replace it in time. And as with anything else, practice practice practice.

My other friend is my tip cleaner; it's slightly abrasive but also tins my tip when the standard wet sponge doesn't cut it.

Honestly I thought all this shit was bullshit but once you get the proper stuff you'll never go back and your soldering will be robust and better than ever.