Guerrilla Tactics: work arounds for the rest of us

[MasteringMills]

pick up an old tascam 8 track cassette deck for songs that feel like 1987. they don't sound half bad... maybe just 40% bad. but, it's a classic bad that no digital studio can compete with. a couple days without looking at a computer screen isn't half bad either.

 

[nate_dennis]

I'm actually doing all of my recording on an old TASCAM 8 track portastudio right now (488 mk2) so I'm excited to see how it all comes out. I'm interested to learn more about the 360 phase tool. What is it and where can I get one?

Another thing that I don't hear a lot about on these forums is "expanders." I have one I'm going to use on my session tonight. They basically push the noise floor down allowing a better sound-to-noise ratio. I just don't hear a lot of people talking about using them. I can't speak to their results, but I hear good things about them. They SHOULD help reduce background noise for those of us not fortunate enough to work in a perfect environment.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Another thing that I don't hear a lot about on these forums is "expanders." I have one I'm going to use on my session tonight. They basically push the noise floor down allowing a better sound-to-noise ratio. I just don't hear a lot of people talking about using them. I can't speak to their results, but I hear good things about them. They SHOULD help reduce background noise for those of us not fortunate enough to work in a perfect environment.

The kind of downward expansion you're talking about is at the core of how the original dbx tape noise reduction system worked. What it did was upward compress (not to be confused with downward compression, which is the kind of compression most people are familiar with) the signal before recording it on tape. Then when it played the tape back, it would downward expand the signal back to it's original dynamics. In doing so, it would push the tape hiss volume way down to virtually inaudible levels without having any significant effect on the frequency response of the signal.

What you have to watch out for when using downward expansion is to make sure you're not expanding the quiet part of your signal out of hearing range along with the bath water. Of course if you're one of those guys recording noting but electric distortion in the top 15 dB of digital scale, then that's probably not a problem. Then again, if you're doing that, then noise level is probably the least of your problems .

Unfortunately in these days where every schmuck (pro or am) is trying to smash every last bit of dynamics out of their mix to make an unlistenable wall of noise that's "competitive" with all the rest of the unlistenable walls of noise they're trying to emulate, tools like expanders are kinda lost in the noise.

G.

 

[nate_dennis]

So the NR that used upward expansion only affected the tape right (which is of great interest to me since I'm recording on an old portastudio) so an expander should, in theory, still improve my sound since my signal won't really be affected by the NR. (I'm sure I don't make any sense, but I'm trying.)

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

So the NR that used upward expansion only affected the tape right (which is of great interest to me since I'm recording on an old portastudio) so an expander should, in theory, still improve my sound since my signal won't really be affected by the NR. (I'm sure I don't make any sense, but I'm trying.)

The reason it only affected the tape noise was because the expansion was a second stage in the process. Equally important was the upward compression to the signal that happened before the signal was laid on tape. The upwardly compressed signal was recorded; here is where the tape noise was added. Upon playback, the signal and tape noise are re-expanded with a mirror image expansion of the original compression.

In this way the tape hiss is reduced without affecting the signal. But the compression is an essential first stage. Without it the expansion can affect both the tape noise *and* the signal.

NOTE: The above diagram is not necessarily absolutely accurate in the dB numbers. Also this diagram shows both upward and downward compression happening (squeezing towards the middle), whereas - if I remember correctly - the dbx system was mostly upward compression (squeezing towards the top).

G.

 

[nate_dennis]

That's so cool! I think it's amazing how people worked to find work arounds to inherint imperfections in their mediums! That what this thread is all about!! What other cool ideas do you all have? Any other problems?

 

[ednor59]

Here's one for ya:

I doubled up a paper grocery bag and poured in a couple pounds of pea gravel. Then I rolled the top of the bag shut, and holding it by the roll, shook it up and down to sound like a thousand marching soldiers. Give it one shake on each quarter note or half note, and it lends a really menacing martial effect to a track.

 

[nate_dennis]

LOL That's awesome! I did the same thing with an aluminum can and some gravel to make a shaker. It was pretty cool.

 

[nate_dennis]

I just tossed this out there in another thread, but I think it works well here. . .

If you need to creat a "party" atmosphere (think of the hip hop records where everyone is yelling "HEY!!!" or something of the sort) and you only have yourself, or one or two people . . . try this.

Run you vocals through a detuner. Raise or lower the signal by a half step. Set the output so that both the wet and dry signal are equal. Repeat two or three times. If it's just you, you may want to do it more, but if you have two people, everyone changing their pitch each take, you can have a "full room" of people in only a take or two. (I have to credit the book "Guerilla Home Recording" for this one, but it's a cool trick.)

 

[nate_dennis]

I thought I'd resurect this old thread.

I finally got a decent project going and I used this to (IMO) great affect. If you're using a drum machine and attempting to get realistic sounding drums; instead of recording them directly run them through your monitors and mic em. I angled the speakers slightly inward (facing each other) and used an XY setup with two Naiant XQ SDC's. I truly love the sound. Granted in the song I was working on the drums were subtle and not "in your face." But the concept should translate well to all styles I would assume.

 

[whjr15]

How would you do a volume swell on a held note on a piano? You don't

How could one sing harmony with their self?! They don't.

With that train of thought, overdubs would be THE cardinal sin... But that's part of what makes music interesting to listen to. Sure, if the song is good, it's good... BUT don't let that stop you from being creative, I mean music is art, right?

 

[Dani Pace]

Don't underestimate the use of "cheap mics." I picked up several really cheap mics at a flea market kinda on a whim. Their sound wasn't totaly bad but a bit tinny for most things. I tried them on cymbals, you guessed it, they worked surprizingly well.

Another mic trick (for bass drum) is to use a vocal mic, placed inside another bass drum with the front head removed, set about 5 or 6 inches in front of the bass drum being used, open end facing the drum being used. Gives a nice natural reverb sort of sound to the kick.

Slightly off track but if you want to get mic stands out of the way, take a desktop mic stand (the kind with like a 4 inch base) and drill 2 or 3 holes in the base, screw this to the ceiling, use a couple of goose necks with it and a mic mount. I added a few cup hooks to the ceiling to keep the cable up and out of the way. This works best with lighter mics.

If you have cheap mic stands which tend to pick up resonances (kinda boomy sounding) try wrapping them in pipe insulation to cut down on this problem.

For some interesting variations try using an old cassette deck as a preamp, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

 

[richardmac]

Here's my contribution, though it's an obvious one - the homemade "reflection filter." Go to samash.com or any such place and you'll find a funky looking little U shaped sound deadener that sits directly behind your mic as you record... for $300! I'd love to know how much profit they make on these things. But the concept can be useful. I got an old mic stand, some cardboard, some sound-deadening material, some duct tape, and made something similar for free. And it definitely helped cut down on reflections from the wall opposite me when I sing. I also discovered that I needed to deaden the wall in back of me when I sing for best effect.

Did it work as well as the $300 version? Probably not. But it helped and it was FREE. It also fell apart as soon as I got done recording. Now I need to make something that looks nicer and will hold up better...

 

[nate_dennis]

These are some great thoughts!!! Anyone else? It always amazes me the kind of solutions people find to problems. Keep them coming!

 

[Chibi Nappa]

gaffer's tape + cymbal stand (obviously not one you are drumming with) = mic stand

Yeah...on my most recent drum recording.



Speaker cab = drum throne

Every day, unfortunately. The good news is I don't drum on my own productions and the guys I hire always have the real deal.



Cheap 1980's FM synth Casio keyboard + guitar amp modeling software (+ a long ass time tweaking) = useable key sounds
I especially recommend the auto-wah and rotary speaker effects.


Long cable runs + different rooms of the house = reverb selections

 

[Chibi Nappa]

I thought I'd resurect this old thread.

I finally got a decent project going and I used this to (IMO) great affect. If you're using a drum machine and attempting to get realistic sounding drums; instead of recording them directly run them through your monitors and mic em. I angled the speakers slightly inward (facing each other) and used an XY setup with two Naiant XQ SDC's. I truly love the sound. Granted in the song I was working on the drums were subtle and not "in your face." But the concept should translate well to all styles I would assume.

If you have a real kit, send the recorded drum machine through speakers placed around the real drums to pick up some rattles n' rings.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Oh, and the essential classic:

Have the bass player stretch out a Kleenex tissue and hold it in front of the singer's face when you can't find the pop filter. Makes for great photo memories!

 

[cantthinkofname]

i recently got this book, and i think its pretty good so far, but still haven't been able to try out anything yet, but it seems to make alot of sense

 

[nate_dennis]

i recently got this book, and i think its pretty good so far, but still haven't been able to try out anything yet, but it seems to make alot of sense

Yeah, it's a good book. Especially if you're really new to all of this. The section on mixers and their use was especially useful to me. All in all I really think the main point of the book is "Be patient. You will have problems but you can work around them and get it done." So yeah.

 

[cantthinkofname]

Yeah, it's a good book. Especially if you're really new to all of this. The section on mixers and their use was especially useful to me. All in all I really think the main point of the book is "Be patient. You will have problems but you can work around them and get it done." So yeah.

thanks, something it said that i've also heard here alot is get it right before the mix, and there won't be problems with mixing and mastering, so i've kept that locked in my mind, hopefully i can apply it thanks again