Mix Critique Please

[ObeseArmadillo]

Here is a mix that I did this weekend. The song was written by Erich Carlson - he played all the guitars, bass and handled all the vocal chores. I played the drums and mixed. The acoustic gtrs and bass were all tracked at Erich's studio, while the remaining tracks were recorded over the weekend in my studio.

How does the overall mix sound? Anything standout as an issue? Any suggestions?

Thanks for listening.

http://www.box.net/shared/g2ja7adeca

 

[ObeseArmadillo]

Any feedback at all?

 

[Xeries]

Listening as I write this OA,

I'm in cans so the panning is a little drastic with the bounce back and forth. Now the rhytm git is coming in and sounding very good. Nice definition on the drums. Snare is just about perfect to my ears and the kick a little thin.

Vocals are good but the doubling is not necessary in my opinion. Just a clone and some shift would fatten it up fine.

I'm getting used to the doubled vocals now. I could use more fills with the kit.

No cymbals except the hat for now and a kind of muted crash. How about a bell ride or at least a crash before the break.

Cymbals are still a little vacant and mushy in the break. More fills please.

As far as the mix you did in your studio. Sorry I can't give you specifics on the time line because the player doesn't give that to me, BUT . . . at the point where the vocals say "watch the stars and stripes and wave," the verb changes and so does the overall feel of the mix. Not necessarily better or worse, but different at that point, which screams retake in some shape or other. I speak from the same malady, my friend.

As far as the composition goes, it sounds like it holds it's own as a corporate bailout frustration kind of protest in the lyrics and the progression serves them well, BUT . . . all that wandering back and forth acoustic intro is begging for a rudder to get the song on the right course of a melody. It's almost as if the player (s) aren't really sure they want to write an intro, so they are just jamming. Make sense? My buddies and I do that sometimes and then one of them will say, "hey, maybe we should write something to that." Like a signature lick that will be played the same way every time in the beginning of the song.

Over all the mix is pretty good although some drastic separations in cans, but I'm on a laptop and I sure don't want to listen with those crappy little speakers. You don't want me to either.

Is that what you were looking for?

Wig

 

[jeffmaher]

I hear the bass and guitar both biased to R.

Right off the bat, try panning the bass opposite the first guitar..and spreading them out from ctr. There'e a pileup right of ctr.

One thing that bothers me: the guitarist is death-gripping the neck...pressing the strings sharpish. I'd consider a do over.

As far as differentiating the chorus:

Try a simple stock modulation...like from D to E. And then the guitar and bass can play that low E for some bottom and grit...very effective for guts. [you could also drop the low E to D in the bass and guitar and use that to shake things during the verses.

And you could try a word re-write [chorus] at the same time...say the same things with fewer words...longer syllables...a melody, different...something to sing big background vox on...change texture...add interest.

A breakdown ...back to the intro..in the relative minor or something, [B-]would be wicked nice to hear.....

The drum pan and fx are epic. Could use more low freqs....but I place the bass and guits to the outside...and/or move the bass ctr, and double an electric, or jangling, whanging acoustic on the other side. [roll off the mids] It'll help define the space carved out by the kit already.
2c

 

[ObeseArmadillo]

Xeries,

Thanks for the listen. I really appreciate it and the feedback.

Re the Drums and more fills..... I actually tried to hold back and avoid overplaying (I have been very guilty of that in the past). I see what you are talking about on the cymbals - I will have to work on that.

The transition part you are talking about near "watch the stars and stripes and wave" came about in an attempt to add some distinction between the verse and chorus. So I automated a widener and an enhancer that was already on the guitar channel strips. Listening to it again now, I think it needs to be toned down a bit.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to get this distinction between that verse and chorus?

I really do appreciate the feedback! Thanks again.

 

[ObeseArmadillo]

I hear the bass and guitar both biased to R.

Right off the bat, try panning the bass opposite the first guitar..and spreading them out from ctr. There'e a pileup right of ctr.

One thing that bothers me: the guitarist is death-gripping the neck...pressing the strings sharpish. I'd consider a do over.

As far as differentiating the chorus:

Try a simple stock modulation...like from D to E. And then the guitar and bass can play that low E for some bottom and grit...very effective for guts. [you could also drop the low E to D in the bass and guitar and use that to shake things during the verses.

And you could try a word re-write [chorus] at the same time...say the same things with fewer words...longer syllables...a melody, different...something to sing big background vox on...change texture...add interest.

A breakdown ...back to the intro..in the relative minor or something, [B-]would be wicked nice to hear.....

The drum pan and fx are epic. Could use more low freqs....but I place the bass and guits to the outside...and/or move the bass ctr, and double an electric, or jangling, whanging acoustic on the other side. [roll off the mids] It'll help define the space carved out by the kit already.
2c

Jeff - Death grip! LMAO! Thanks for the feedback. I like your ideas about the panning - I am going to have to give some of those suggestions a go. The ideas for the verse to chorus transition are cool too - that gives us more things to try. Thanks. One question for you - are you suggesting the overall mix needs more lows or the drums need more lows?

Thanks much for the input - and the listen.

 

[guitarmonkus]

Listening...

I like the plunky intro...kind of a folky feel.

Well that's over, and now it's rockin. The guitar doesn't seem to have much low end, and it's a bit distracting. The vocals are decent, but I wouldn't necessarily call them interesting, which is what I am listening for. Some phrases seem rushed, and some awkward, but some solid. I think the solo was probably the songs strongest moment, but it got a little off kilter at the end their. Dude, I take that back, the ending is beautiful. Very John Frusciante like, which I love.

So I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but I'm not much for giving advice on the mix. I just thought about the song itself. Peace

 

[jeffmaher]

The bass guitar is buried under guitar R....and is sounding in the mids...like the low strings on the guitar. So I'd say the bass needs its onn real-estate...and a dose mo' rumble. The kit sounds kind of tinny, too.

I used to make a lot of recordings like this...I'd hear it so often, that my brain compensated for the sound...and I could hear nuthin' wrong with it.

So taking some advice I got here, IIRC, I did two things:

1- I loaded some music I liked onto files on desktop. While I was mixing, I'd listen to those files for 'ear reference'...re-orient the EQ between my sorry ears....and compare, fresh, like.

2- I'd occasionally load those tunes...especially ones that were close to what I was hoping to accomplish in my own tune.... onto the platform...open the paragraphic EQ, and observe the general overall freq display. There's a common general 'form' to pro recordings. I tried to listen and compare...and learned to use the graph to cue me when there were frequency zones that were under or over represented....cuz my ears are not so good. That helped me get in the ballparks I wanted...consistent with what real engineers were making.

What I like...and what good engineers achieve...is a spectrum that represents all the frequencies in balanced measure. Real , live, in-person drums have a large bass componant. That's what I can't hear in this record.

 

[Bulls Hit]

Reminds me of a Cult tune. I'm not super keen on the snare tone but it does cut through, unlike the kick which is MIA on my speakers. I like the vocals, but the melody line could do with more variation.

 

[ObeseArmadillo]

All -

Thanks for the input and the feedback. This is exactly what I was hoping for. You have all provided some great suggestions that I am anxious to try out this weekend.

Listening...

I like the plunky intro...kind of a folky feel.

Well that's over, and now it's rockin. The guitar doesn't seem to have much low end, and it's a bit distracting. The vocals are decent, but I wouldn't necessarily call them interesting, which is what I am listening for. Some phrases seem rushed, and some awkward, but some solid. I think the solo was probably the songs strongest moment, but it got a little off kilter at the end their. Dude, I take that back, the ending is beautiful. Very John Frusciante like, which I love.

So I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but I'm not much for giving advice on the mix. I just thought about the song itself. Peace

guitarmonkus - Thanks. The low end on the guitar... I think I might have set the cut off for the high pass a bit high. I agree on the rushed feeling on some of the phrases.. I am pretty sure that Erich who wrote the song would agree. I appropriate the listen.

The bass guitar is buried under guitar R....and is sounding in the mids...like the low strings on the guitar. So I'd say the bass needs its onn real-estate...and a dose mo' rumble. The kit sounds kind of tinny, too.

I used to make a lot of recordings like this...I'd hear it so often, that my brain compensated for the sound...and I could hear nuthin' wrong with it.

So taking some advice I got here, IIRC, I did two things:

1- I loaded some music I liked onto files on desktop. While I was mixing, I'd listen to those files for 'ear reference'...re-orient the EQ between my sorry ears....and compare, fresh, like.

2- I'd occasionally load those tunes...especially ones that were close to what I was hoping to accomplish in my own tune.... onto the platform...open the paragraphic EQ, and observe the general overall freq display. There's a common general 'form' to pro recordings. I tried to listen and compare...and learned to use the graph to cue me when there were frequency zones that were under or over represented....cuz my ears are not so good. That helped me get in the ballparks I wanted...consistent with what real engineers were making.

What I like...and what good engineers achieve...is a spectrum that represents all the frequencies in balanced measure. Real , live, in-person drums have a large bass componant. That's what I can't hear in this record.

jeff-

Man, you are a wealth of knowledge. I mean that in a serious way. I am kicking myself for not checking the mix against a reference track - somehow it slipped my mind. That is excellent advice. I think I am going to take all the faders down to zero and build the mix from the bottom up again. Listening on other systems I agree that the bass is under represented and the highs are perhaps over stated. Your input has been very helpful. Thanks again.

Reminds me of a Cult tune. I'm not super keen on the snare tone but it does cut through, unlike the kick which is MIA on my speakers. I like the vocals, but the melody line could do with more variation.

Bulls Hit - More Kick. Not a problem Thanks for the the listen and comments. Much appreciated.

 

[Robertt8]

pretty guitars at the beginning, but they played far too long for an intro for my tastes. cool little ditty. i think the snare could stand to be EQed a bit to give it more snap if possible. I think the vocals are a little too up front. as soon as they kick in, everything sounds pushed back...especially with the doubled tracks panned hard to each speaker. rock!