Physical limits of drummers?

RAMI said:
Hmmmmm......Wouldn't changing 1/4 notes to whole notes make it even FASTER, as opposed to slower. I mean if each click at 190bpm was (mistakenly) considered a whole note, that means dividing those whole notes into 4 quarters would make the 1/4 notes come 4 times faster, no?


Nah, I think pissgor just doesn't know what he's talking about. :eek:
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what i mean is, what he's calling 190 bpm would actually be roughly 47 bpm. ie: i quantize my drum machine to click at 16th notes.

but, your last sentence, i believe, nails down the entire problem, regardless of what his thought process may or may not be.
 
drossfile said:
bpm always means quarter notes per minute.
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Only if you are in a time signature with a 4 at the bottom, like 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, etc..

Bpm will count 1/8 notes in a time signature with an 8 at the bottom, like 6/8, etc..


Bpm will count 1/16 notes in time signatures that have a 16 at the bottom, like 11/16, etc...

So, it would be much easier to play 1/32 notes at 190 bpm if the song was in 11/16 time. If you are talking about 4/4 time, that is super fast.
 
Farview said:
Only if you are in a time signature with a 4 at the bottom, like 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, etc..

Bpm will count 1/8 notes in a time signature with an 8 at the bottom, like 6/8, etc..


Bpm will count 1/16 notes in time signatures that have a 16 at the bottom, like 11/16, etc...

So, it would be much easier to play 1/32 notes at 190 bpm if the song was in 11/16 time. If you are talking about 4/4 time, that is super fast.
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right. i thought the 4/4 standard had been established for this particular discussion. i threw the word "always" in there pretty loosely, when i should've reiterated the 4 rule.
 
I love forums!!!

RAMI...You have been correct since your first post to the poor misguided 14 yr old. Unfortunately you fight a loosing battle. (you can't match wits with a wittless person!) I find it very hard that anyone who claims to be in any type of performing arts school for music, does not know the difference between quarters, 8th's, 16th's 32nd's etc... so let us spell it out.

... if 16th's are counted, 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a (each count being = to 1 single stroke on the drum) with the #'s 1,2,3,4 hitting on every click of the metronome...then 32nd's are, 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a (each count being = to 2 strokes on the drum with the #'s 1,2,3,4 hitting on every click of the metronome.
So... to the 14 yr old. Set your metronome and count accordingly and you will find it is quite impossible to effectively play that fast in 4/4. the average drummer can do probably about 90-104. super fast drummers might be able to reach 132. Buddy Rich was said to have double jointed wrists and he could do single stroke faster than anyone....they still weren't an even 2 strokes per count in 4/4.
I teach drums and I have yet to find a student with the flexibility and dexterity to be able to play even 16ths at anything above 144 in only a year's time. I have been working on speed and agility for the last 30 years and I might be able to hit 32nd's at 130 but I can't sustain it. If I am wrong about this...I will hang up my sticks for ever! :D Well...not really!;)
 
extremebeat said:
RAMI...You have been correct since your first post to the poor misguided 14 yr old. Unfortunately you fight a loosing battle. (you can't match wits with a wittless person!) I find it very hard that anyone who claims to be in any type of performing arts school for music, does not know the difference between quarters, 8th's, 16th's 32nd's etc... so let us spell it out.

... if 16th's are counted, 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a (each count being = to 1 single stroke on the drum) with the #'s 1,2,3,4 hitting on every click of the metronome...then 32nd's are, 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a (each count being = to 2 strokes on the drum with the #'s 1,2,3,4 hitting on every click of the metronome.
So... to the 14 yr old. Set your metronome and count accordingly and you will find it is quite impossible to effectively play that fast in 4/4. the average drummer can do probably about 90-104. super fast drummers might be able to reach 132. Buddy Rich was said to have double jointed wrists and he could do single stroke faster than anyone....they still weren't an even 2 strokes per count in 4/4.
I teach drums and I have yet to find a student with the flexibility and dexterity to be able to play even 16ths at anything above 144 in only a year's time. I have been working on speed and agility for the last 30 years and I might be able to hit 32nd's at 130 but I can't sustain it. If I am wrong about this...I will hang up my sticks for ever! :D Well...not really!;)
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...I think we now need to close this thread on a sane note.
 
Sorry....he lost me at the whole Lars Ulrich is good at keeping a steady beat while Joey Jordison is fast bit. Joey is actually quite average and Lars is sup-bar in the whole sea of pro drummers out there. No offense though...I was easily impressed at 14 also.
 
The funny thing I found was that you guys weren't arguing about the point of misinterpretation. Which means that you weren't arguing with anyone at all. The fact is that a metronome works with 'beats per minute' but the assigned metronome beats to the music/time signature can be and are varied, even if there are usual standards.

Some professionals like to play for example an 80 beat per minute song in 4/4 with the metronome at 160. Are they playing at 80 or 160? Thus to describe a fill you could say sixteenths at either speed if you clarify that 2 metronome hits = one beat with the latter.

No person clarified this with the kid, yet continued to argue, which baffled me.

Thus if the comment to make isn't 'you're an asshole and you can't do it' but rather a simple clarification. "With the metronome at 190/200, what are you considering to be one beat?"

Is this 16 year old kid talking about playing 1600bpm on the snare, far far faster than the world record? Did anyone actually think that was what he was saying? I find that pretty ironic.
 
So you are saying that my usual First Act brand sticks from Wal-Mart are what's preventing me from being fast and steady? Damnit....Those wasted years.
 
The549 said:
The funny thing I found was that you guys weren't arguing about the point of misinterpretation. Which means that you weren't arguing with anyone at all. The fact is that a metronome works with 'beats per minute' but the assigned metronome beats to the music/time signature can be and are varied, even if there are usual standards.

Some professionals like to play for example an 80 beat per minute song in 4/4 with the metronome at 160. Are they playing at 80 or 160? Thus to describe a fill you could say sixteenths at either speed if you clarify that 2 metronome hits = one beat with the latter.

No person clarified this with the kid, yet continued to argue, which baffled me.

Thus if the comment to make isn't 'you're an asshole and you can't do it' but rather a simple clarification. "With the metronome at 190/200, what are you considering to be one beat?"

Is this 16 year old kid talking about playing 1600bpm on the snare, far far faster than the world record? Did anyone actually think that was what he was saying? I find that pretty ironic.
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You sure you've been reading the same thread as the rest of us........?


RAMI said:
So, at 190bpm 1/4 notes...........


So, anyone that claims they can do 32nd notes over 1/4 notes at 190bpm....
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drossfile said:
....bpm always means quarter notes per minute.
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Farview said:
Only if you are in a time signature with a 4 at the bottom, like 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, etc..
Click to expand...

drossfile said:
right. i thought the 4/4 standard had been established for this particular discussion.
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The549 said:
Is this 16 year old kid talking about playing 1600bpm on the snare, far far faster than the world record? Did anyone actually think that was what he was saying? I find that pretty ironic.
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Ironic? I guess you also missed the part about him saying that 7A Nylon tips help everyone play faster. Or that 73.9% of pro drummers use nylon tips.:D :D :D

Ironic? I think not. :rolleyes:
 
RAMI said:
But keep in mind that they apparently use nylon tips, so that changes EVERYTHING.:D
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and don't forget mapex drums--the tightness of their heads really facilitates a quick rebound and therefore higher speeds of single-handed rolls.

speaking of rolls: :rolleyes:
 
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