SCD Pair for Under 1k

[lank81]

Hell Once again!
I've been doing some searching around and some listening and wanted some opinions on SDC Pairs that would be under a 1k that would be used mainly for acoustic work / drum overheads. I have a pair of Studio Projects C4 and would like to upgrade to something a little better. Here are the 3 choices I've come up with at the moment:

AT 4041
Peluso CECM6
Josepshon C42

The type of music that I play / record is Acoustic Rock but I also have some friends who come over and record more of Alternative Rock type of sound (i.e. Raconteurs, White Stripes, Black Keys, BRMC).

Any suggestions other than these 3? Out of these 3 which would you rate for best quality for the price? The Peluso's sound pretty nice, especially on acoustic guitar.

Peace,
Lank

 

[KineticSound]

Shure SM-81; around $700 for a pair. IMO, more natural sounding than the 4041's.

 

[Rust E-Z]

Beyerdynamic MC930

Seen nothing but good opinions about these, and nobody ever sells them used.(usually a good sign)

 

[Weasel9992]

Shure SM-81; around $700 for a pair. IMO, more natural sounding than the 4041's.

+1...Love 'em.

Frank

 

[pohaku]

I have the C42s and AT4051as (step up from the 4041s). You should consider both the Beyer MC930 (@$740 for a matched set last time I looked - try B&H and Full Compass (you have to call Full Compass for their best price)) - and the new AT-4051b.

I have the Beyer model prior to the MC930 and it's great. I think if the MC930 had been available when I bought my C42s, I might have bought the Beyers instead. The AT mics and the Beyers are not quite as bright as the C42s (not that the C42s are objectionably bright), but it kind of depends what sound you want. The brightness is more apparent when close micing the C42 than when they are used at a distance, say for overheads. Depending on the rest of the mix, you might want the brightness to cut thriough a bit.

Used AT4051as are available from time to time for @$250 each and are a real bargain at that price IMHO. FWIW, AT doesn't sell matched sets claiming that their tolerances are so close that matching isn't necessary. Neumann does the same.

Another mic you could consider for acoustic work is the GT-44/AM-40 Groove Tubes tube mic. It is a MD condenser that works really, really well on acoustic instruments. I don't know what their new availability is since the GT sale to Fender, but used ones run @ $250 each. The Sterling rebadge of these through GC might still be available. Not overtly tubey, but it takes the edge off just enought to be really nice for acoustic instruments.

 

[Supercreep]

I'm fond of my Josephson C42MP.

I don't have any of the other mics in question, but I think any of the mics you mention are probably a good choice.

I have tried an SM-81, and I thought that microphone was bright.

 

[pohaku]

I'm fond of my Josephson C42MP.

I don't have any of the other mics in question, but I think any of the mics you mention are probably a good choice.

I have tried an SM-81, and I thought that microphone was bright.

Agreed. I would certainly take the C-42s or the AT4051s or the Beyers over the SM-81s.

 

[pohaku]

If you do decide you want SM-81s, here's a deal:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear...eds/361464-fs-shure-sm81-pair-mint-cheap.html

 

[dgatwood]

I've always found the Shure condensers (e.g. SM81) to be bright as well, and maybe even a little harsh in the top end. I understand that you can clean up the sound a lot by ripping out the HF disc at a small cost in extreme HF response, but I'd definitely pick my MK-012 mics (stock) over the 81s I've used any day of the week---particularly for overheads. I haven't had a need to record acoustic on anything since I got them, but I know a lot of people here use them for acoustic guitar as well.

That said, I haven't used any of the mics on your list, so I can't provide a useful comparison.

 

[rmaier]

I just picked up a stereo set of the Beyer MC930s. I haven't had a chance to do much with them yet so I don't know how valuable my input will be, but my first impressions are very positive (bear in mind that I've only voice-tested them). They seem to be very quiet and have a very beefy output. They seem to be accurate without being clinical. They have a pleasant proximity effect without getting muddy in the bottom end and they sound particularly nice (rich) in the lower mids. The term robust comes to mind. My AT4041 sounded rather harsh and unnaturally scooped in comparison (which is one of the reasons I decided on picking up the Beyers). I also did a quick comparison with a pair of budget Apex 185s (very much like the MXL SDCs) which, although perfectly usable on some sources, are much more colored in the upper mids and lacking in the bottom, and can sound pretty pinched, especially when the cardiod capsule is being used.

I also own an Alesis Groove Tubes GT 44. I like it alot, especially for classical guitar. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy but mine is starting to show signs of age in the noise department. Definately not overly bright or hyped in my opinion but I've only ever used them on plucked acoustics. Beyer claims that the MC930s are good on a wide variety of sources. Judging by the comments from users on other forums and my own first impressions, their claim seems to be true.

Happy hunting.

 

[Shadow_7]

Haha, I beat you to those. Or at least I've got the check in the mail and a UPS tracking number. SM-81's will hopefully rock.

Avenson STO-2's good with the right preamp / converter and proximity.

Rode NT-5's good (for the money).

Shure SM-81's (I'll find out soon enough)

Beyer MC-930

AT 4041SP

And a number of other options depending on money and intended use.

My avensons were because they were the only non-ribbon mics that I could use outdoors and not destroy them, or spend $1K on windscreens. And the only one I couldn't find any defects in any of the online samples. They don't do all that great for ambience / distance work, but they're good mics for the money.

The SM-81's I ordered are to better accommodate my current uses. Outdoors, at a distance, high heat, high humidity, undervolt phantom power, and other things (like low frequency response) that made the STO-2's not quite the right mics for me in my application. The SM-81's aren't really designed for it either, but cheaper than a Crown Sass-P MK II or a pair of MKH 8040's.

 

[mshilarious]

The SM-81's I ordered are to better accommodate my current uses. Outdoors, at a distance, high heat, high humidity, undervolt phantom power, and other things (like low frequency response) that made the STO-2's not quite the right mics for me in my application. The SM-81's aren't really designed for it either, but cheaper than a Crown Sass-P MK II or a pair of MKH 8040's.

What's this about the Avenson and proximity? It's a flat response pressure omni mic; it has no proximity effect I don't think you will find the low frequency response of the SM81 any better, although it's much flatter than most cardioids. Really it should be fairly similar.

The pressure omni is less likely to suffer from heat and humidity. Neither mic has a diffuse-field response, so I am not sure what you are looking for with the SM81 (other than the 12dB extra wind noise you already noted). Of course, rejection of off-axis noise will be better; net that comes down to an indoor vs. outdoor venue.

The SM81 does win for efficiency; an output transformer wins every time there. As a result, it gives up a bit of sensitivity, but that is usually not troubling, and the absolute noise level will be about the same as the Avenson.

 

[Shadow_7]

What's this about the Avenson and proximity?

It's not the proximity that's an issue, it's the lack of proximity. The higher than average self noise of the STO-2's make them ill suited at a distance. And they seem to be a little light on the low end pickup.

 

[mshilarious]

It's not the proximity that's an issue, it's the lack of proximity. The higher than average self noise of the STO-2's make them ill suited at a distance. And they seem to be a little light on the low end pickup.

OK, so you want proximity effect, but you want to use the mics at a distance? I still don't get it. And not too many cardioids will have more bass response than a pressure omni. True about the self-noise, but I suspect you will find the SM81 (a good microphone, to be sure) to be surprisingly similar to the overall tone of the Avenson, just cardioid rather than omni.

 

[kojdogg]

well, I'll say it... try some Naiants before you spend any more than you have to.

I also really liked Oktavamodded MK-012's, but personally I prefer LDC's and ribbons on acoustics.

Sorry-- I know neither are among the group of three you're asking about.

 

[Shadow_7]

OK, so you want proximity effect, but you want to use the mics at a distance? I still don't get it. And not too many cardioids will have more bass response than a pressure omni. True about the self-noise, but I suspect you will find the SM81 (a good microphone, to be sure) to be surprisingly similar to the overall tone of the Avenson, just cardioid rather than omni.

Well I'm looking for improvements in noise floor(so softer sources don't sound like niagra when normalized), bass presence(the lower Hz that you feel, not just hear), and cardioid (for a better stereo image at a distance). No jecklin or schneider disk since it's mostly outdoors in a windy location. Basically better room mics, since that's how I'm using them. In a big room (outdoors) sort of way. In the sub $500 (used) class of microphones.

The avensons also seem subject to interference, if outdoors near a power source, like the electrical box on the outside of the house. Basically if I'm out back and have the mics higher than belly buttom high, I get a buzz in the recording with the Avensons. Or out front and the A/C is running. It might be my cables or something else, but it's annoying and seems more dependent on the location of the mics more than anything else.

i.e. My current avensons sound like this for TUBA christmas. Austin, TX 2008.

Not the best mic placement given the group was on the tops steps and the audience was on the bottom steps, and my mic stand only goes eye level. But there should be more bass given that it's TUBA christmas.

 

[mshilarious]

OK, well, I think you will get many of those things. The interference is interesting. I think I have an idea of why that might happen, but I'd have to rip open the Avenson to be sure. Anyway, I suspect the SM81 is better, and if it is a cable issue (I don't think it is), transformers usually win there too.

An outdoor "room" mic. Hmmm. Well, outdoors is a perfect absorber, so to speak. And you will need the windscreening you mentioned earlier.

Had you ever had a look at the KSM141? That is a clever microphone. It's not flat response in cardioid like the SM81, but its omni setting is very, very nice--slightly rising bass response too.

 

[Shadow_7]

I haven't checked out the KSM141 yet. But there's some guy in Houston that won a KSM44 in a contest, that's selling it fairly cheap(relative to MSRP). I wouldn't mind having one of those. Basically I was wanting the Crown Sass-P MK II for the battery powered self contain phantom power to help extend the battery life of my Korg MR-1000. And the foam head plus better low end, and built in windscreens. But I was having trouble justifying the cost of a new one with case. So I bumped into the SM81's while scanning NT5's and other options like the AT4041's that were cheaper.

The SM81's were a fair price that I couldn't pass on. And the more I examined the specs, the more I liked them. Although they are fairly identical to my Avensons. In the what you hear is what you get type of way. I've still got to get and play with the mics to be sure, but I may have trouble justifying keeping my Avensons. Since part of the moneys spent was meant to go towards an HD camcorder. The Crown was meant to be an if there's enough left over scenario. But since the attractive next generation camcorder offerings aren't coming out till April (with an unknown MSRP), I shuffled a little bit.

 

[antichef]

I dig on SM81s. I have three, and I removed the slotted disk from one of them, but haven't run too many comparisons yet.

If you decide to pass on that KSM44, don't tell me who's selling it

 

[mshilarious]

When you're talking battery life, you gotta love the SM81 at 1.3mA. The KSMs (any of them) aren't like that; they are fairly thirsty (as are the Avensons).

I have begun to advocate for a low-power phantom standard, which is the reality for portable devices already, except there is no standard. There's just no practical way for a portable device to offer full-voltage full-current phantom power without requiring way larger batteries than most people want to carry. A lot of these devices, the phantom supply current might exceed the power for everything else in the device, just to run a couple of mics.

Whatever standard that would be, the SM81 would likely already meet it.