live band setup

[apodos]

I have a rock band and we plan on playing small to medim sized venues.
We are vocalist x 2, bass, guitar, keyboard.
We have drums, bass amp, guitar amp, keyboard, mics.
I'm looking at pa systems and I'm confused for a few reasons:
1-what are reliable brands of powered mixers?
2-how much power is advisable in order to have good sound for small/medium venues
3-most mixers have one monitor output....is it standard for bands to use only one monitor?if so, vocal or drums..........if not, how would we hook up multiple monitors
Thanks

 

[snellular5]

mackie is always reliable for live venues
and for 3. you can daisy chain a bunch of monitors to eachother.

 

[suprstar]

I've always been a Yamaha fan, they make powered mixers, altho I've never owned one.. I prefer to get a board and an external amp, it's easier to upgrade to something bigger later. like adding another amp, or switching to a mixer with more channels, etc.

How much power? Our first PA was 325 watts, that worked for vox for little bar gigs.. 3 mics, 1 board, 1 amp. We didn't run any instruments thru it tho. That amp eventually became our monitor amp, and we pushed mains with a QSC 850, that was loud enough for anywhere we played.. So almost 1200w in our biggest configuration. We ran vox, kick, snare, and keys into it, and we didnt mic up any guitars or bass, 4x12's and 8x10's were loud enuf The only time bass/guitars ever got mic'ed was if we were playing some venue where they had a much larger PA than ours.

 

[ocnor]

For small/medium venues [100-200 people] I've always used about 3000-5000 watts for the mains and about 2000-3000 watts for monitors. That's bare minimum for a rock band. The mains need to be loud enough so that the audience doesn't hear the stage amps and monitors. You also need plenty of headroom so that you don't distort the speakers and kill them.

 

[apodos]

ocnor: I'm no going to get near anything like that kind of power you mention; I'm middle aged with a good job so I do have money to get a decent system but then again we're not aspiring to get a contract or anything like that; we just want to sound decent in a public setting and have all the instruments be heard.

I'd prefer to get a powered mixer under $500 to use with my existing speakers.

Is it unrealistic to think that we can use the pa for vocals and maybe drums...while leaving the guitar/ bass unmiked and played through just a guitar/bass amp respectively.(I have a peavey bandit 112 guitar amp, for instance).

 

[ocnor]

Is it unrealistic to think that we can use the pa for vocals and maybe drums...while leaving the guitar/ bass unmiked and played through just a guitar/bass amp respectively.(I have a peavey bandit 112 guitar amp, for instance).

How would you ever be able to get a good mix? The guitar and bass would have to be ungodly loud to cut though a club full of people. That means a deafening stage level. The guitar and bass would then be picked up by the vocal mics and they would inadvertently be sent through the vocal monitors. So not only would the people singing not be able to hear themselves because of the stage volume, they would also be struggling because of the guitar and bass in the monitors. Not to mention the feedback problems that you would be dealing with.
My advice is to buy a non-powered mixer and power amp(s). That way when you realize that you've totally underestimated the amount of wattage required, you will be able to add more power amps.

 

[suprstar]

Ya, so it wont be 'perfect', but you can still get your vox loud enough to be heard over the rest of the band and it'll be 'pretty good'. Good enough to be playing out at local bars if your individual bandmates can control their volume. You won't be mic'ing up drums, your 1x12 will need some help though, unless you're playing really quiet music.

 

[apodos]

thanks, guys.

all good advice to consider...but I'm cheap so I really want to believe that suprstar's recommendation will work...

maybe if I mic my guitar/bass amps and send it through the mixer then that will minimize the problems ocnor speaks of in regard to feedback/monitoring

 

[boingoman]

How would you ever be able to get a good mix?.

Mostly through people controlling their levels, listening to each other and dropping their egos.

 

[Mr. C]

I'll admit right off that I've never played out, so yes I probably don't know what I'm talking about. However, I do play at my job (a residential facility for kids) and when we play in the gym I know for sure that our pa is not 3000-5000 watts. I'll guess around 300 watts (I could check tommorrow). We even have played outdoors.

Anyways, could Ocnor be right? It just sounds insane to me. I've been out to see bar bands and some of the small bars and even medium size bars...well I just can't imagine that they have that much wattage in their pa. I would think that much power would blow everyone out of the bar.

 

[Simman]

Mostly through people controlling their levels, listening to each other and dropping their egos.

Yeah like that will ever happen

 

[Simman]

I'll admit right off that I've never played out, so yes I probably don't know what I'm talking about. However, I do play at my job (a residential facility for kids) and when we play in the gym I know for sure that our pa is not 3000-5000 watts. I'll guess around 300 watts (I could check tommorrow). We even have played outdoors.

Anyways, could Ocnor be right? It just sounds insane to me. I've been out to see bar bands and some of the small bars and even medium size bars...well I just can't imagine that they have that much wattage in their pa. I would think that much power would blow everyone out of the bar.

Back in the day (80s) we had 1800 - 2000 watts in the subs alone so, 5 - 10k watts was pretty common for a standard "bar band" pa (at least on the Jersey shore club circuit). Gone are those days.

 

[MadHatterTCM]

If I went to play a 200+ person club/venue/bar.. i'd be pretty pissed if I had to deal with anything less than the type of system ocnor is referring to...
reallllllyyyy pissed.

I mainly play 100-300 people clubs and often play 700 person clubs. I don't play in 100+ person venues so that I can sound no better than the PA in my garage...

If you happen to consider 100+ to not fall in the "medium sized" category, then sure, maybe you could back it down a bit...

but most venues I play at are pushing 1000+ in each main. 2 speakers on each side. then subs...

You could get away with buying a 1500watt amp and using it in stereo. one side to each speaker. do the same with subs.... a bit weak though..

 

[Gherkin]

Down here, most music venues and clubs have a PA system that they feel is suitable for the size of the room. Some venues also prefer things quieter than others.

As far as private functions go, I play in a cover band, and we get away fine with a Yamaha powered mixer - 400w a side, and 400w for monitors. We use Yamaha Club speakers - a pair or 15" + horn for FOH and a pair of 12" + horn for foldback. This goes perfectly fine for a wedding, business dinner or other small functions with up to 150 or so on the dance floor.

 

[LemonTree]

sell all your gear and invest in some good fishing equipment..
























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