Ok so SHOULD i upgrade my OH mics and/or kick mic?

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c_corie

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I made a couple posts about my drum sound, sounding ok-ish. For the recording I'm posting a link to the drums were done with Okatva 219s as overheads, SM57 on snare, and AKG 550 on kick. All that was done was a little low cut from the overheads. I'm using the pres in my Digi 001, and a Behringer T1953.


I guess my question is, should my recording sound better given the gear I have, or have i reached my limit? Also what gear would be a significant step up?

I was thinking of maybe some Apex ribbon mics, or AKG perception 220s or C2000Bs for OHs and a kickball for kick, or maybe something else?

Any comments on the quality of this dry recording? (minus the crap drum playing, i don't "really" play drums)


link: http://c_corie.tripod.com/id1.html ALSO BE CAREFUL there is loud click at the end, cause of the mp3 encoding i used i think
 
also i was wondering about the apex 215 more so then their other mics.
 
I would think that double ribbons like the 215 probably aren't a good choice for stereo miking purposes because of the off axis coloration inherent in getting sound from two different pickups at two different angles, but I could be wrong. If you want to use an Apex ribbon for overheads, I'd probably steer you towards the 205 or the 210. You might also consider any of the Nady mics (e.g.. RSM-3, RSM-4, or RSM-5; the RSM-1 and RSM-2 are pretty much the same as the 205 and 210, but with different headbaskets).

Word of warning: you need high ceilings with proper treatment if you use ribbons for overheads. Otherwise, you'll get too much reflections and backscatter off the ceiling being picked up off the back of the mic (figure-8 pattern).

If i were suggesting overheads, I'd probably suggest the Oktava MK-012. They have a slightly wider than average cardioid polar pattern that makes them work really well for up-close X/Y stereo, so they can really bring out your toms without the cymbals killing you. :D
 
What was your mic layout? Your recording sounds good to me, IMO just the kick is a little weak and maybe the snare needs some more crack to it. So maybe just a better kick mic and EQ on the snare? Other than that seems good to me.

How do you like the 219's as OHs? I just got a 319 for free and am wondering if I should get another for a stereo OH pair. I did a test recording with it and liked the results.
 
I was using the "glyn"? method for overheads. Also I have MXL 603s i use for overheads but they sound sort of....annoying? They're brighter and pick up things better but they have some strange quality to them I don't really like.

I think I like the Oktavas a little better as overheads because I can always boost the high and cut some mid/low. With the MXLs it sounds clearer, but more...cheap ish sounding.
 
c_corie said:
I was using the "glyn"? method for overheads. Also I have MXL 603s i use for overheads but they sound sort of....annoying? They're brighter and pick up things better but they have some strange quality to them I don't really like.

I think I like the Oktavas a little better as overheads because I can always boost the high and cut some mid/low. With the MXLs it sounds clearer, but more...cheap ish sounding.
Click to expand...

Glyn Johns technique... I use it tool. It works well.
I know what you mean about cheap sounding. Sometimes a brittle high end can sound way too harsh and cheap on cymbals. I know the 319's roll off after 16khz so this might be a good thing with cheap pre's like I'm using myself.
 
c_corie said:
I made a couple posts about my drum sound, sounding ok-ish. For the recording I'm posting a link to the drums were done with Okatva 219s as overheads, SM57 on snare, and AKG 550 on kick. All that was done was a little low cut from the overheads. I'm using the pres in my Digi 001, and a Behringer T1953.


I guess my question is, should my recording sound better given the gear I have, or have i reached my limit? Also what gear would be a significant step up?

I was thinking of maybe some Apex ribbon mics, or AKG perception 220s or C2000Bs for OHs and a kickball for kick, or maybe something else?

Any comments on the quality of this dry recording? (minus the crap drum playing, i don't "really" play drums)


link: http://c_corie.tripod.com/id1.html ALSO BE CAREFUL there is loud click at the end, cause of the mp3 encoding i used i think
Click to expand...

i'd worry about upgrading the kick mic first and foremost. i fought with a d550to get a good sound out of it for about a year and finally gave up and bought an audix d6. MUCH easier to deal with. people have their own preferences, but i'd forgo the kickball and head straight for one of the go-to kick mics. d6, d112, beta 52, or atm250de.

i couldn't get the link to work for me (i've been having this computer glitch on and off for awhile now), so i can't comment on the current results you're getting. but as far as your OHs are concerned, is your room treated? if you're getting a usable sound out of them in an untreated room, then you'll get fantastic sound out of them with treatment. plus, if the quality of sound that dissatisfies you is because of funky room modes, the best mics on earth won't help and your mic upgrade will have been for naught.

just a thought.

good luck! :)
 
I always seem to foget I haven't done anything acoustically to the room. What is the best/cheapest way to to it. Like what are the most cost effective ways, packages or methods to do this?

I'll upload pics of my studio so everyone can see what it looks like.
 
c_corie said:
I always seem to foget I haven't done anything acoustically to the room. What is the best/cheapest way to to it. Like what are the most cost effective ways, packages or methods to do this?

I'll upload pics of my studio so everyone can see what it looks like.
Click to expand...

the website i used to make my broadband absorbers is no longer available, so i googled "diy bass traps" and this looks like a pretty great resource:

http://basstraps.net/

good luck! :)
 
So for the gear i have vs. sound I am getting, should i upgrade something, how much better can sound get in "finished basement" type setting? With out having expensive drums/cymbals, mics, preamps, converters, plugins, and a good drummer?

I'm trying to figure out what will get me the most improvement for the least money.
 
c_corie said:
So for the gear i have vs. sound I am getting, should i upgrade something, how much better can sound get in "finished basement" type setting? With out having expensive drums/cymbals, mics, preamps, converters, plugins, and a good drummer?

I'm trying to figure out what will get me the most improvement for the least money.
Click to expand...

best bang for buck improvement will always come from adding broadband absorbers, and when you make them yourself it's not at all expensive. i treated the crap out of my room last year and spent a total of around $300.

now, if you place your kick mic inside the drum (which i do, but some don't), then treatment won't really affect the kick sound, so a kick mic upgrade would be in order with or without treatment.

as for OHs, the ones you have may actually be pretty good, but they don't sound as good as they can because of flutter echo and standing waves. i would advise against upgrading OHs until you've treated the room, because you could put a pair of josephsons over the kit and as long as they're picking up all the room's nastiness, those won't sound good either!

so it depends on what you wanna do. when i upgraded my equipment, i replaced the kick mic, then treated, then bought new OHs. but you could certainly treat first--that never hurt anyone!

good luck! :)
 
For me I think your drum set up sounds great. It sounds like your toms are choked off to me like there is something sitting on the heads. The kick sounds a little boomy also. But overall i think the sound works great for your style of music.
From what I hear I dont think overheads are going to give much in return at this point.
 
any other opinions on the sounds i'm getting vs. equipment I have? I'm def thinking of upgrading the kick mic, but i think for the now the Oktavas are working so i'll stick with them.
 
What kick drum mic is best for placing OUTSIDE the kick drum? To get that "pushing some air" head sound?
 
c_corie said:
What kick drum mic is best for placing OUTSIDE the kick drum? To get that "pushing some air" head sound?
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you'll still want a large diaghragm dynamic like the d6, d112, beta 52, or atm250de. the only one i'd add that isn't specifically designed as a kick drum/bass amp mic is an electrovoice re20. it was designed as a broadcast mic, but lots of people use it on kick, and i almost always see it placed outside the drum.

but really it's just a matter of taste. it's not like one LDD is good for "inside" and the other for "outside." it's a matter of "what's a good kick mic" and then placing it to your liking.

i'd say the d112 is most versatile, because you can get a more poofy, 52 sound with it pointed one way and a clickier d6 sound pointed the other way.

good luck! :)
 
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