Tube amps on a budget...

  • Thread starter Thread starter MatchBookNotes
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I lack a natural talent, but i love to play, and practice whenever the will power strikes me which is usually on a good day for an hour or more. I've been cranking my solidstate lately with my new pedal and i am starting to like the sound a bit more. so at least i'm trying to make what i have sound good.

I really want to try a superchamp but the local shops are sold out, which means most of the musicians in town have them already... which makes me not want to bother if everyone else has it.
 
I tested out the SuperChamp XD the other day at our local GC. I don't see the hype. Doesn't sound TUBISH enough for me and most of the voicings were "Meh..." Just another Hybrid in my opinion. The clean channel supposedly is all tube but still didn't do it for me. I have a few old tube amps (and a Valve Junior V3 Combo) and all sounded better in my opinion with just a couple pedals. Lotsa folks liking em though.
 
I agree with Lt Bob.

Get real! Any g. player with an ounce of talent and ability will be able to get a decent tone from pretty near whatever amp he/she is using. Sure it's gonna vary from amp to amp - but outside of an A/B test, the average punter who's listening can't tell the difference anyway and they could give a shit besides. For fuck sake - let's get a sense of proportion round ear/hear/here - this thread started with a guy lookin for a budget tube amp.

If it sounds good to the picker - so be it. End of a now tedious thread and story. I mean for Christ's sake...

K.
 
My hero's were Bluesman from the 30's 40's and 50's... they had what we would probably call junk but they "worked em"...
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:D I really like the scene from the movie about Ritchie Valens - where he comes to an audition with a local band (in a garage) and the snooty sax player/band leader says that his amp looks like something from the garbage. And then he plugs in... and plays... :rolleyes:

strangedogs said:
I tested out the SuperChamp XD the other day at our local GC. I don't see the hype. Doesn't sound TUBISH enough for me and most of the voicings were "Meh..." Just another Hybrid in my opinion. The clean channel supposedly is all tube but still didn't do it for me. I have a few old tube amps (and a Valve Junior V3 Combo) and all sounded better in my opinion with just a couple pedals. Lotsa folks liking em though.
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you gotta turn it UP (like a tube amp). It's usually hard to do at GC. At lower volumes it does sound "digital" (because you're mostly hearing the preamp). It starts sounding good when it's LOUD. It's a 15wt tube power section - it has to be louder than a 5wt amp to sound good.
 
K Road said:
I agree with Lt Bob.

Get real! Any g. player with an ounce of talent and ability will be able to get a decent tone from pretty near whatever amp he/she is using.

K.
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A naive thought.
 
There are things in the chain that you can go "budget" on. However, the core is what it is, and you should not cheese out on it.
I simply suggested spending a little more to get something that will give the most versatility, durability (dependability), and best customer service if there is a problem. Try getting any of that from Peavey, or even Marshall. Go ahead...give Marshall a call.;) Tone maybe down to "taste", but the rest of this stuff is not.
 
ggunn said:
There you go with the condescension again...
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If the statement were true, why do we not see "pro's" playing Peavey guitars, or even the lower grade Ibanez Paul copies? After all "any good guitar player with an ounce of talent can get a good tone out of anything". :rolleyes:

It's simply a BS statement. A good artist can get inspired by any sound, but there is a difference between being inspired to write a song around a certain sound, and using that sound for every song they play. There is good reason why some equipment is considered "pro" grade, and other equipment is simply not even marketed toward it.


I also notice that you only count "Condescension" when you believe it comes from me, but not when it's toward me.


I also notice that it's overlooked that I did recommend one Peavey amp.
 
Learn to build your own! It's a huge money-saver (most of the time), you get exactly what you want, and you get the best customer service you could imagine! :)
 
Toker41 said:
If the statement were true, why do we not see "pro's" playing Peavey guitars, or even the lower grade Ibanez Paul copies? After all "any good guitar player with an ounce of talent can get a good tone out of anything". :rolleyes:

It's simply a BS statement. A good artist can get inspired by any sound, but there is a difference between being inspired to write a song around a certain sound, and using that sound for every song they play. There is good reason why some equipment is considered "pro" grade, and other equipment is simply not even marketed toward it.


I also notice that you only count "Condescension" when you believe it comes from me, and not when it's toward me.
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The condescention is in your projected attitude, not in the truth or BS in what you say. Be careful you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back like that. ;^)
 
Not patting myself on the back at all. Simply stating a fact.

"A good player can get good tone out of anything" is opinion, and can not be backed up.

"Peavey does not have the customer service Mesa has", and "Peavey guitars, and Cort guitars are not marketed toward professionals (with very few exceptions)" is a business fact.
 
Toker41 said:
Not patting myself on the back at all. Simply stating a fact.

"A good player can get good tone out of anything" is opinion, and can not be backed up.

"Peavey does not have the customer service Mesa has", and "Peavey guitars, and Cort guitars are not marketed toward professionals (with very few exceptions)" is a business fact.
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I guess you don't realize you're doing it. Everything you have said is opinion - yours. Whatever, man, I guess we all live in our own worlds.

There is a guy here in Austin that plays through a Peavey Classic. He's a pro; he's in his 50's now, I guess, but he's been well known and respected around here for at least 25 years. He gets a great tone out of his amp, and he could have a Mesa if he wanted one, I'm sure. I've never heard you play, but I'd stack him up against you any day; the guy is a monster.

And yes, that's my opinion.

My apologies to everyone else for my contribution to the pissing contest. I'm done now.
 
Toker41 said:
"Peavey guitars, and Cort guitars are not marketed toward professionals (with very few exceptions)" is a business fact.
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When I set up concerts, we had a band come thru who was endorsed by Peavey. They said the amps sucked ass, but they were bound by contract to have peavey gear on stage. So they gutted out the amps and replaced everything with marshall guts, and filled the 4x12's with greenbacks :D The outsides all looked like legit Peavey gear, and they were happy with the sound. :p
 
Obi-Wan zenabI said:
There are old Peaveys that are like this. (for cheap!) and old Music Man's, I think (for not so cheap)
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I will sing your praises with the blood of a thousand vikings if you can provide model numbers. :D

Light said:
The most important thing with a tube amp is that the circuit be as simple as possible. If you want one that sounds great, you do not want any bells and whistles. Some things are OK (reverb, tremolo, a tone stack), but you do NOT want a master volume. Master volume makes amps suck.
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Totally subjective, IMO. I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about (you do, based on what I've read of your posts on this forumn :)), but you yourself have said you're not a fan of preamp gain. If you're looking for that cascading gain stage saturated lead sound, then something with a master volume makes a lot more sense.


...aaaand I wrote that before I saw your comment referring to the Mark-IV as the epitome of why you hate preamp distortion, lol. Yeah, it's a total case of different strokes for different folks. I think the Mark-IV has one of the best lead sounds I've ever heard. Run one of the gains most of the way up, the other half to three quarters, roll the bass down, keep the mids pretty high and the treble at 6 or 7 or so, and bypass the 5-band EQ in triode mode, and man... It's one of the most responsive, three dimensional feeling amps I've ever played.

Again, you're not wrong, it's just there's different forms of "right" here. :)

Meanwhile, the Mesa fanboi-ism is getting a little heavy in here, even for me. Matchbook, did you ever say exactly what sort of a tone you were looking for? More than just "something with a bit of crunch"?

Since they keep coming up, the Peavey Classic 30 is actually a VERY well respected amp in the industry. also, I was quite surprised with the Crate Palomino 30 I played - it ran awfully hot (it was at a GC and had probably been on for a few hours, but still the knobs were hot to the touch, which worried me), but for bluesy lead stuff a la Gilmour, I was caught off guard. Even my buddy who I was at the GC with who doesn't listen to much that's not metal looked at me while I was playing through the thing, and said, "That's a Crate??!!"

That said (and Light, you'll appprove ;)) the best clean tone I've ever heard was my Strat into a Dr Z Carmen Ghia a friend's dad used to own, into a custom 1x12 he built. Good lord. Neil Zaza describes his Dr. Z Route 66 as sounding "like angels flying out of the speakers," and I honestly couldn't think of a better way to describe it. Simply phenominal gritty clean tones, and I recall the heads going for something like $800 back then.
 
Ok, last post on the matter, because it doesn't matter....


I listed Mesa as the number one choice because:

1. Tone (which is subject to opinion)
2. Versatility ( so much more than any Peavey, or Marshall one trick pony)
3. Great customer service (which every other amp listed lacks)
4. Dependability (built like a tank! No pressed fiberboard here, unlike Marshall who's wheels always break off after just a few gigs, or a few moves around the studio)

I stated to stay away from a "budget" amp, because you will just end up spending more later. There are things you can skimp on, and there are things I do not believe you should skimp on. Amps are the core of your tone, and the heart of your rig.

If for some reason that pisses people off, then so be it. I don't really care. It's simply the best advice I can give on the matter.

If you insist on a "budget" amp, check out the Peavey VTM60, which can be found on e-bay for under $200. Spend the other $300 on a 4x12, and you then have an amp that can hang in any live situation, and is a very versatile recording amp.

If you don't like the Boogie's, and are looking for mostly clean tones, then I suggest spending a little more and getting a used Fender Twin Reverb. You simply can't go wrong with that. Although it's still a matter of taste, I doubt many would argue that it's great tone, and an industry standard. It's an amp you can own the rest of your life. It's a very respected quality amp.
 
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Toker41 said:
"A good player can get good tone out of anything" is opinion, and can not be backed up.
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No, that would be a fact. A good player is one who can play, which means they are not dependent on their gear. They will be able to get a usable sound out of anything. That is not to say they wouldn't rather be playing through their own stuff, but they CAN. It's us shitty players who need our own stuff.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Totally subjective, IMO. I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about (you do, based on what I've read of your posts on this forumn :)), but you yourself have said you're not a fan of preamp gain. If you're looking for that cascading gain stage saturated lead sound, then something with a master volume makes a lot more sense.
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Well, let me put it this way. If you are looking for all those things people say they want out of a tube amp (warm distortion with rich overtones, dynamic response, all that shit), a simpler amp will give all of those things to you much better than a more complex one. Every additional complication you put in your signal path will reduce all of that good stuff. "Keep it simple stupid" is a very important part of the equation.

And of course all of that is just my opinion. It's the bloody internet - what the hell else are you expecting?

Best clean sound? One of my guitars, through my amp (cranked across the board), with the guitars volume set about 6, or crank the guitar volume too and play softly. You don't get that kind of dynamic control from preamp distortion.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
No, that would be a fact. A good player is one who can play, which means they are not dependent on their gear. They will be able to get a usable sound out of anything. That is not to say they wouldn't rather be playing through their own stuff, but they CAN. It's us shitty players who need our own stuff.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
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ditto ..... and Toker ...... I'm as professional as it gets. I've done somewhere in the neighborhood of 13,000 gigs ...... I've done a minimum of 5 gigs a week to as many as 10 and 12 gigs a week since 1969. No, you've never heard of me and I'm just a hired gun that plays regional gigs but I'm in far more demand than I'm able to fill and I basically walk in ANY gig I want ..... play a bit, and get it.
While I don't disagree with the basic premise of what you're saying, you keep talking about what 'professional' players will and won't do and you're flat out wrong. I know and work with top notch players all the time and their equipment requirements are all over the map and include Peavey ............ period. That player that uses cheap ass Carvin SS amps has played with big name acts regularly and is the absolute best player I've ever even seen and he doesn't give a crap what he plays thru. Actually, I personally think he carries that a bit too far but if you heard him play, you would want to run right out and buy a Carvin SS.
The fact is that you want to speak for pros but are saying things that simply aren't what the hundreds of full time pros that I know and work with say or feel.
Do I have amp preferences? Of course I do ........ but within certain limits ....... I can play on whatever I have to and make it sound acceptable ........ that's not an opinion ...... it's a fact that I can back up anytime you find yourself in Fl.
One more thing ...... I thought I covered this nicely in my first post which you ignored but I don't disagree with you on Mesa's ...... they are very reliable ...... maybe the most reliable I've ever used except for my '70's Ampegs ......
but the idea that all those other amps are total crap is simply not the case.
It doesn't sound like you actually mean 'pros' when you talk about it since I know plenty of full time pros that use Peavey. It sounds like you're mainly talking about wealthy pros which is a whole different subject.
 
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