Pay $1300, or be a musician and learn to tune?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mwthompson
  • Start date Start date
Gibson is supposed to stay in tune. Setup properly.
I forsee more frequent neck issues with auto tuners. What if your guitar is setup by a 9th grader?

If you need auto tune you don't need a USA Gibson. Unless your a rich idiot i guess.
 
i can see how this would be money wasted for the average player who sits at home and jams in their bedroom, but i can also see it could be infinitely convenient for gigging professionals who have to use multiple tunings on stage...if i was in the group of the latter, i would jump all over 1 of these
 
zazz said:
all the guys calling this just a tuner are just a bunch of luddites.
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how does it make me a luddite to note that the brand new robot guitars are going out not working even though they a brand freakin' NEW!?
There's no way around the fact that running a bunch of cables thru the neck to motorized servo tuning gears adds a lot of stuff to break where there was nothing to break before.
And the fact that they apparently leave the factory broken is the biggest indication that it's a POS.
 
Ironklad Audio said:
i can see how this would be money wasted for the average player who sits at home and jams in their bedroom, but i can also see it could be infinitely convenient for gigging professionals who have to use multiple tunings on stage...if i was in the group of the latter, i would jump all over 1 of these
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When I gig on guitar, I use several: a resonator, and electric, and a flat top. That Robot ain't doing me any good.

And how large is the market of gigging professionals? They will be like Marshall stacks -- sold to wannabees who brag about how they can change tuning in nothing flat in the middle of playing in the bedroo--I mean, at Woodstock.
 
Ironklad Audio said:
i can see how this would be money wasted for the average player who sits at home and jams in their bedroom, but i can also see it could be infinitely convenient for gigging professionals who have to use multiple tunings on stage...if i was in the group of the latter, i would jump all over 1 of these
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And that is one reason why you are not, at least yet, a gigging professional (no offense intended). As I said earlier I know A LOT of "gigging professionals", I make guitars for them and set them up for them. They are far more interested in a flexible and unique tone from a guitar. They want to know when they turn up at a gig be it at an open air 100,000 seater in Tokyo or a studio basement on Toronto that the guitar they have will be in tip top shape. I'm going to brag a little now but thats why they come to me. Especially the studio guys.

The one thing Gibson haven't yet considered and it's already coming back to bite them in the ass, is off site warranty work. At present all problems with anything like this is going to HAVE to go back to Gibson. They wont be too pleased about that. I'm not about to invest time and money installing equipment needed to troubleshoot and repair these things and I doubt many other workshops will either. Gibson are pleased about one thing however, it has raised their profile again.
 
lpdeluxe said:
When I gig on guitar, I use several: a resonator, and electric, and a flat top. That Robot ain't doing me any good.

And how large is the market of gigging professionals? They will be like Marshall stacks -- sold to wannabees who brag about how they can change tuning in nothing flat in the middle of playing in the bedroo--I mean, at Woodstock.
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And even more ..... how big is the market of gigging players that use a bunch of alternate tunings?
I play as much or more than practically anyone in the country but I don't personally use alternate tunings at all. I even play slide in standard tuning. And in a 40 year career where I've known literally thousands of full time players ..... I've never known but one that used a lot of alternate tunings.
I understand that it's very common in some styles of music but still, numerically it's gotta be relarively small.
 
gcapel said:
Gibson is supposed to stay in tune. Setup properly.
I forsee more frequent neck issues with auto tuners. What if your guitar is setup by a 9th grader?

If you need auto tune you don't need a USA Gibson. Unless your a rich idiot i guess.
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It doesn't. It has no way of adjusting for players intonation and is hellish to setup from a players perspective let alone a luthier. If or when this idea does take off, and I still have my doubts that it ever will, it won't be based on the technology employed here. It is still a solution without a problem.

There will be no neck issues resulting from dropping and raising tunings at will. Your average guitar can cope with that if setup right. I met up with a few local luthiers over the weekend and the subject of this came up. Almost to a man everyone agreed they would have designed it differently and most based it on a locking nut, headless design with the tuning done at the saddle and bridge. Even then, not one person there had any interest in the potential.
 
Gibson has now shown that they can incorporate a form of robotics into a guitar. It helps counteract their image as being technologically rooted in the past.

As far as working guitarists go, Lt Bob is correct in that not that many use multiple tunings. Those that do either carry more than one guitar or retune on the fly.

I am not impressed with the first run of guitars' known problems in tuning accuracy, and my personal opinion is that the guitar answers a question that nobody was asking.

I predict that its sales will slow to a screeching halt within a year.
 
Lt. Bob said:
And even more ..... how big is the market of gigging players that use a bunch of alternate tunings?
I play as much or more than practically anyone in the country but I don't personally use alternate tunings at all. I even play slide in standard tuning. And in a 40 year career where I've known literally thousands of full time players ..... I've never known but one that used a lot of alternate tunings.
I understand that it's very common in some styles of music but still, numerically it's gotta be relarively small.
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Very true. It is far more common amongst acoustic and traditional players and is very much a niche market.

I've mentioned this before on occasion, but one of the first questions that musical instrument technology students or musicologists are asked when they begin their studies, is "what drives change in the form and function of an instrument? The musician, the luthier/maker, or the composer?

Almost without exception it is the composer. He has an idea that needs a certain instrument to perform it. He approaches the musician who tells him what he needs and he or she gets it made. Thats it in a nutshell, but throughout musical history you can pretty much identify that pattern.

On the rare occasion when technology or new materials have had an impact it has still been to fill a need that had been identified and not met with traditional techniques. Examples, Wound strings replacing rope strings, nylon instead of gut, wire instead of either. This robot guitar has neither a compositional need or a technical one that musicians have been waiting for. Sure one or two people of note may find a use for it but that isn't going to drive it into the mainstream or pay Gibson enough to develop it.
 
I learned about this principle when I was in college, and racing motorcycles on weekends. It was a couple of years before factory racers were available, so we all built our own.

And we all learned (well, most of us, anyway) that a robust machine that would finish would pretty quickly outperform the latest tech gadget-laden cherry bomb. It didn't make any difference if you could run 10 MPH faster down the straight if you couldn't do as many times as one of the slower, more reliable bikes.

The lesson has stayed with me.
 
When I gig on guitar, I use several: a resonator, and electric, and a flat top. That Robot ain't doing me any good.
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and? if you don't need it, don't buy it. it's that simple.

And that is one reason why you are not, at least yet, a gigging professional (no offense intended). As I said earlier I know A LOT of "gigging professionals", I make guitars for them and set them up for them. They are far more interested in a flexible and unique tone from a guitar. They want to know when they turn up at a gig be it at an open air 100,000 seater in Tokyo or a studio basement on Toronto that the guitar they have will be in tip top shape. I'm going to brag a little now but thats why they come to me. Especially the studio guys.
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what the hell does using different tunings have to do with the quality of the instrument and its tone? i've been to plenty of concerts where guys have 2(sometimes more) guitars sitting on stands on the side of the stage, which get pulled out for only 1-2 songs that are played in an alternate tuning. these robot guitars would allow them to play all their tunes with 1 guitar, and not have to interrupt their set to retune. the way is see it, the less shit you have to carry around on the road and set up on stage, the easier your life is going to be.

i saw a cover band a few weeks ago where both the guitarist and singer were playing les pauls, and they had to stop a few times to retune their guitars to accommodate songs that were in open/drop tunings...i'm sure they both would've appreciated having a self-tuning les paul on stage with them, especially when they ask the crowd if they have any requests, and some dude wants to hear a stones song that was written in open D, and they're all tuned to standard...

long story short: if you're lucky enough to be in a position where the robot guitar is going to make your life easier, then buy the damn thing. if not, THEN DON'T!! it's really that easy.
 
mwthompson said:
...and yet people are still defending it. :confused:
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Yeah, I don't get it, either.

The new issue of Guitar Player has a complementary review, in spite of their having observed electronics failures on 2 of 3 test models and observed tuning inaccuracies.
 
Ironklad Audio said:
long story short: if you're lucky enough to be in a position where the robot guitar is going to make your life easier, then buy the damn thing.
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How is an unreliable and inaccurate tuner going to make anyone's life easier? :confused:

EDIT: ...and I think everyone has already taken your advice. Those who don't want it won't buy it. Those who do and can afford it, will.
 
Ironklad Audio said:
what the hell does using different tunings have to do with the quality of the instrument and its tone?
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It has to do with the fact that this robot guitar does NOT work. It also has to do with the fact that working session and gigging professional guitarists understand that there is no ONE GUITAR that will work for all gigs or situations. If they want a Les Paul sound they will play a Les Paul they will not add anything into the equation that is likely to compromise the instruments function on the road or in the studio. They can all tune a guitar already and do.
i've been to plenty of concerts where guys have 2(sometimes more) guitars sitting on stands on the side of the stage, which get pulled out for only 1-2 songs that are played in an alternate tuning. these robot guitars would allow them to play all their tunes with 1 guitar, and not have to interrupt their set to retune. the way is see it, the less shit you have to carry around on the road and set up on stage, the easier your life is going to be.
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And I will bet you now as much as you care to wager that you will be seeing that in 5, 10, 15 or 20 years time, and in that time you will see no more than a handful of these Gibson Robot guitars being employed. The technology a/ doesn't work b/ is redundant in nearly all cases c/ needs to be improved and justified. Gibson actually know this.
i saw a cover band a few weeks ago where both the guitarist and singer were playing les pauls, and they had to stop a few times to retune their guitars to accommodate songs that were in open/drop tunings...i'm sure they both would've appreciated having a self-tuning les paul on stage with them, especially when they ask the crowd if they have any requests, and some dude wants to hear a stones song that was written in open D, and they're all tuned to standard...
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If this covers band of "professional" gigging guitarists can afford the asking price and do get a couple they are going to be sadly disappointed with the results and practicality. If they are good enough and wealthy enough they would have em already. The funniest thing about the one I handled was it wouldn't even tune up to a well tempered piano let alone a keyboard. God knows how its going to tune to one of it's own. They will go back to using the one guitar until the idea works and has been refined. The technology employed is about as accurate as your average stage tuner. In other words totally unreliable. Also it doesn't work, did I mention that bit? It has no idea about correctly tuning a guitar with correct intonation.
long story short: if you're lucky enough to be in a position where the robot guitar is going to make your life easier, then buy the damn thing. if not, THEN DON'T!! it's really that easy.
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Yep and the number of units they shift in the coming years will prove either you or me correct. I'm quite happy to have a wager on it..;)

Sadly most of the people who are supporting this thing are either totally ignorant of the importance of tuning and temperament and/or have no experience of working with pro musicians and their gear. They also haven't actually seen one and like digital watches think that it's a pretty neat idea. (Hey Zaphod I got a Hitchhikers Guide quote in there somewhere :D).
 
Zaphod B said:
Yeah, I don't get it, either.

The new issue of Guitar Player has a complementary review, in spite of their having observed electronics failures on 2 of 3 test models and observed tuning inaccuracies.
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There are very good reasons for that which I couldn't possibly comment on....:rolleyes:
 
muttley600 said:
They also haven't actually seen one and like digital watches think that it's a pretty neat idea. (Hey Zaphod I got a Hitchhikers Guide quote in there somewhere :D).
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.....damn it.....

Something about elevators......:p :D
 
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