Building a small studio. What next??

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solo2racr

solo2racr

SUCK, SQUEEZE, BANG, BLOW
Sorta a noob at this so bear with me. I just don't know what I need next. I'm building a small studio and have some of what I need but need help on where to go from here.

What I do have is a PC based DAW, Soundblaster ( I know......UGGG) X-FI Extreme Audio pci card, monitor amp and monitors, 12 channel board, and a Alelsis M-EQ230. The card specs out very nice useing the RMAA software. Instruments aside (Epi LP + Bandit112 and a Yamaha PSR225 keyboard) What would be the next thing I need for the studio.

I am thinking more than the one mic I have (an old Peavey PBH) and/or compressor. I have had the Alesis 3630 and thinking about getting another.

Opinions on what I think I may need next (I KNOW everyone has one!!:D) or any other ideas would be helpful.

Thanks for your answers,
Ken
 
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make sure your room is properly treated.

you can never have too many flavors of microphone, either.

take a gander at the studio building forum here on homerecording.com for ideas and solutions for acoustic room treatment.
 
I'd start out with:
  • a decent sound card that has enough channels to cover your needs and with good AD/DA conversion (I have no idea about the sound card you mentioned, but the word "Soundblaster" isn't doing much for me);
  • a few decent and usable flavours of microphone;
  • and probably some kind of half-decent preamp unit. I don't know what your board is, so it might even cover your needs, but a nice two channel pre is always a good thing to have.

As far as all the extra outboard gear goes, while it's cool to have (and it sure looks sweet), I'd make sure you have the above items covered first and foremost; until then you can use VST software effects, EQs, etc. to good effect (no pun intended). There's no point going out and dropping cash on comps and other such things, if your mic>pre>AD/DA chain is sub-par.

As far as treatment goes, for just starting out, I'd stick to the makeshift, DIY approach for now: blankets, sleeping bags, furniture...
 
I guess I should have scrolled down further. I didn't realize there are so many more forum subjects. My bad!!:eek:

The monitors are in near field but, I do need to treat the room better. Primarily bass traps. I do have a subwoofer added to the monitors and I'm sure the room reflects alot of bass.

I had been using ProTools Free that I found the link to here a few years ago. I stumbled acrossed Reaper a few months ago and, I think, it is alot better.

After thinking about it some more, Your right, More mics.

The sound card only has the 2 (right & left) stereo inputs but, just for myself, that's enough.
The mixer is a 12 channel Samick I have had for about 10 years. Not that good but it does work.

The card specs, as tested by the RMAA 5.5 software are.....


Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio
RightMark Audio Analyzer test

Testing chain: External loopback (line-out - line-in)
Sampling mode: 24-bit, 96 kHz

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB: +0.02, -0.18
Noise level, dB (A): -100.4
Dynamic range, dB (A): 100.1
THD, %: 0.0009
IMD + Noise, %: 0.0034
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -94.4
IMD at 10 kHz, %: 0.0054

With no point of comparison, I don't know how much the card may "color" the sound but, it does have good specs and is MUCH better than the onboard sound the mother board had.

One of the best things that I can think of to do is just go ahead and record a song with what I have, render to CD, and play it in everything I can find. Listen close and see where I need to change things.

Thanks for the help and I will be posting more in the PROPER topic.
Ken
 
solo2racr said:
Sorta a noob at this so bear with me. I just don't know what I need next. I'm building a small studio and have some of what I need but need help on where to go from here.

What I do have is a PC based DAW, Soundblaster ( I know......UGGG) X-FI Extreme Audio pci card, monitor amp and monitors, 12 channel board, and a Alelsis M-EQ230. The card specs out very nice useing the RMAA software. Instruments aside (Epi LP + Bandit112 and a Yamaha PSR225 keyboard) What would be the next thing I need for the studio.

I am thinking more than the one mic I have (an old Peavey PBH) and/or compressor. I have had the Alesis 3630 and thinking about getting another.

Opinions on what I think I may need next (I KNOW everyone has one!!:D) or any other ideas would be helpful.

Thanks for your answers,
Ken
Click to expand...

Go in your room and clap your hands loudly.

What do you hear? Echo's?

My studio is nearly complete with room treatment and all of a sudden I can hear my mixes...the good, the bad, and the ugly/:D

Treat your room.
 
therage! said:
Go in your room and clap your hands loudly.

What do you hear? Echo's?

My studio is nearly complete with room treatment and all of a sudden I can hear my mixes...the good, the bad, and the ugly/:D

Treat your room.
Click to expand...


GREAT idea. Just tried it and it seems like most of the echo I hear,moving my head around to pinpoint where, is side reflections.

Thanks for the tip,
Ken
 
solo2racr said:
GREAT idea. Just tried it and it seems like most of the echo I hear,moving my head around to pinpoint where, is side reflections.

Thanks for the tip,
Ken
Click to expand...

That's just the beginning/;)

Here's a good place to start reading up.
http://www.realtraps.com/articles.htm

Bass traps are VERY important...but you'll see that in acoustic articles. You can build your own to, pretty easily.
 
Real traps have a free download of tone tests for your room too.
But, IF you plan to spend money get dedicated audio/soundcard or a firewire or USB interface that will give you decent conversions. The Soundblaster - I used one until I decided I liked recording and was prepared to spend some money on it as a hobby so I upgraded quickly.
 
I'd go with a better soundcard, even if you think it specs out nice, you might be suprised. Other than that, it seems like it might be more wise to upgrade than to buy new things. One main reason why i'm saying this is that you don't know exactly what you want to buy, which leads me to believe that you are buying "luxery" items, basically things you don't really need, or things that are preventing you to do what you want. I don't know anything about your mixer but it seems that you are wanting something better in the future. Your compresser is OK but their are better out their (keep the old one though if you want more than one).


Other than that, room treatment is the best thing i've done. I haven't even gone that deep I have 6 pannels. I spent around $150, i still have material left over, just nowhere to put it right now.
 
I was reading some of the articles at Real Traps and did the mirror thing. I am going today or the next to get some rigid fiberglass and some 1x4 wood and
build a few to hang on the wall. Going to do some corner treatment as well.

As far as the Soundblaster card goes.....Yes, the older ones and the new cheaper ones are CRAP. The X-Fi cards are not that bad. The noise floor is lower than most small mixers I have looked at and the headroom is OK. As is the frequency response. I tested MY card using the RMAA software and listed the specs above. Now, I know specs don't tell the whole story. The only method to test and AD/DA converter, that I know of, for how it sounds is to listen. I have listened very closely to MANY over the years and this one sounds pretty good.

My background to make this statement comes from doing live sound for a number of bands over the years and from being a sound snob in the home/car audio fields. I have even been a sound quality judge at car stereo shows. This all adds up to about 20 years of snobbery:eek: I'm just beginning to play a bit of guitar and some keyboards and want to get some stuff recorded. My recording equipment will grow and get better as I get better as a musician.

I have recorded a few things already and, outside of my lack of playing ability, the recording wasn't bad. Getting the compressor I mentioned really is more for knocking the peaks off the guitar before it gets to the mixer. So I guess it would be more of a guitar effect than something for recording. But, a comp can be so useful in alot of other areas too.

What it comes down to, at the moment, is that I got a $50.00 Ebay giftcard for xmas and not sure what to do with it.:D

And again, Thanks for the help,
Ken
 
It's OK I understand now, you asked for advice but didn't like the basic consensus on what you should do.:confused:
It's the A/D & back conversions that'll make the diff. You mix with a sub I suppose.:p
If you want to stay with the soundblaster please do but remember for future reference not to ask a question to which you already have an answer &/or to put your dollar figure up front.:o
Connoisseurs d'l'audio d'l'autocar unite! :D
$50 ebay voucher - lots to chose from but the pizzas will be cold by the time they get there.:eek:
 
I see what your saying but, The card really doesn't sound bad (compared to other consumer cards I have heard:rolleyes:). It would seem that the general consensus would be to treat the room(that's in progress), more mics(start basic and then get more elaborate), and a better card.

Let me throw this out there and see if it flies. I also know the mixer I have isn't that good at all. How about a Alesis Multimix USB 8 ch. mixer. I'm sure it would be a better mixer with better mic preamps and would bypass the X-Fi sound card.

I see a number of factory refurbs on Ebay for just over $100.00 now and could use that $50.00 gift card for part of that. From what I read in the listing, they come with a 90 day factory warranty.

It isn't that I'm limited to the $50.00 gift card but, it isn't like I have mucho dinerro to spend at the moment.

Thanks again, Ken
 
You've provided minimal information on what you actually want to accomplish with this studio you are building. For example, what will you be recording? Which instruments, vocals, electronic instruments? How many tracks at a time do need to be able record? These are a few of the basic questions you need to answer before you or anybody else can really give appropriate advice on what you need to do next.

"Buy more mics" is a useless idea until we know what you will be recording and how many tracks at a time you need.

I will say that recording through a soundblaster is a bad idea, no matter what you are recording. If you are asking for advice, accept the advice and don't fall into the trap of then defending poor choices you might have already made. I highly recommend putting a good firewire interface on your shopping list. Something as simple as a Presonus Firebox or Echo Audiofire4, for example. Unless you need to record a lot of tracks at one time, either of these will be a good choice.

Sorry if I'm being too hard on you, but I just want to try to give a reality check and also get a clearer idea of what you will actually be doing with your studio.
 
Really, I appreciate the criticism. The studio is solely for myself. No great dreams of anything big here. If I end up with a few things I like, I'll pass them on to friends. Simply just a fun hobby. NOT a money pit. I've been there with other things.

As far as what I'll be recording, instrument wise, it will be electric guitar, keyboard, and vocal. As far as style, think Pink Floyd or Steely Dan.

I would think that 2 tracks would be enough for just myself.

SO, does the Multimix USB from Alesis a workable solution?
 
Lets shoot this Multimix USB thing down. You really don't need that thing
if you really get into recording it will be sitting in your closet in a couple
months, really! Hardware mixers are excess baggage at this point.

I would take sonicalberts advice and pickup a nice little little FW interface.
Give your buddy a good deal on the sound blaster and start with a clean slate.

You didn't mention mics so it sounds like you might want a SM57 for the electric guitar maybe CAD M177 or M179 for vocals.
 
SonicAlbert said:
I highly recommend putting a good firewire interface on your shopping list. Something as simple as a Presonus Firebox or Echo Audiofire4, for example.
Click to expand...

I would advise against the Firebox. Its FireWire implementation is not fully IEEE-1394-compliant, and thus it won't power on with bus power with some newer FireWire cards or AFAIK any current Macs. It draws too much current when you first power it on (inrush current), and the computer assumes the port is shorted and shuts off power to the device.

As a result of this flaw, I don't recommend the Firebox to anyone for new installations. You never know when you're going to get a new computer, and if the new computer you buy has port protection, the Firebox will fail to power on correctly....

The same problem also affects older RME Fireface 400 units. The difference is that unlike Presonus, RME immediately fixed their design and offers free upgrades for people who are affected by this problem. Presonus users, by contrast, were kept waiting for months trying to get answers to their questions, and in the end, were basically told "get bent". Basically, the gist of their reply was, "So what if we didn't follow the spec. If it works for other people, we don't care if it doesn't work for you," though not in those exact words....

Oh, and the Presonus Inspire (just recently released) reportedly has the exact same flaw.

Presonus sucks.

P.S. I would love to see a lot of Mac users buy them from dealers with liberal return policies, try them, discover the problem, and then return them to those dealers as defective. If enough people did this, the backlash from the dealers would force Presonus to actually behave like a responsible company instead of a Behringer wannabe.
 
Well, the Firebox does come with a power supply. It doesn't need to be powered by the firewire buss at all. For a home studio it's perfectly easy to keep it connected to the power supply.

In fact, I think firewire audio interfaces sound better when the power supply is used. I'm not sure I could really prove that in a scientific way, but that has been my impression. So unless a person is planning to do a lot of remote work and doesn't have easy access to a power outlet, I don't think there's a problem using the FireBox. It's really an excellent little box, I used to own one.

But I personally would be interested in checking out the Echo Audiofire4. Seems like people that use it are pretty happy with it.

So it looks like you really need a couple mics, one for vocals and one for your guitar (or just one good one for both). You might want to look at the Audio Technica AT2020 for your instrument mic (it works great on vocals too), and then maybe the MXL V67 for vocals.

If you want to go upscale from that, you might want to look at the ADK Vienna or Hamburg, depending on the style of your music.

http://www.adkmic.com/catalog/audiophileseries/vienna-edition.php

You could use the Vienna for both vocals and guitar.
 
Hi Solo,
I'm on record as being a soundblaster basher, un-apologetically, but I think Creative has been doing it long enough now that even they can't screw it up that badly now days. So if this is just for your ears, and it sounds OK to your ears, and it gets along fine with your software, then maybe that's not the first thing you need to upgrade.......but keep it on the list. ;)

What I would suggest is that you think through the process of recording, in detail, and how you will do each of the steps. What about drums? Are you going to just use loops, or are you going to write your own drum parts and either program them or use some kind of triggers and samples? What about bass? Are you going to do only electric guitar, or are you going to be using an acoustic? Are you micing a guitar amp, or are you using an amp sim and going line in? Will you always be doing this by yourself, or will you collaborate with others?

It may be that the best thing for you to get next is a decent mic preamp and a couple of mics. Your SB card will almost certainly sound WAY better if you don't use it's mic input, and instead get something like an M-Audio DMP3 and go line in to the SB. Instruments, like your keyboard, should also sound better going through the DMP3 first. Add an SM57 for things like guitar amps and a large diaphram condensor mic for vocals, and you'll have the basics for making decent tracks two tracks at a time.
 
Very interesting read on the Presonus Inspire. I've had mine for over two years now and have never run into issues, but now I think I'll be digging that power supply out of the bin just in case...

By the way, is this eBay deal too good to be true: ??

http://tinyurl.com/2men2k

I see that interface new online at around $1000.
 
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