DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Self taught, mostly by talking to people who actually knew what the f*ck they're doing and tyring to pick their brains, lol.
E
Elton Bear
Unregistered Abuser
I'm at University at the moment, but I do a lot of my own fiddling about with audio too - I think a good mix is the best way to go.
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know a fellow who went to full sail. The guy was already an audio wizard before he left and already a businessman. He impressed the right people, got a paying internshp and left before he graduated. He has since gone on to build several sucessful (though not huge) businesses around audio and video. Neat guy.
He told me something about the job placement program at full sail and how they figure their statistics... Apparently soldering is part of the course material in audio engineering- you know, so you can maintain the studio equipment. If they find a job for you soldering at a widget factory they consider that a "sucessful" job placement since you are using your skills learned at Full Sail.
Whether that is true or a typical disgruntled-college-campus-dweller rumor I don't know.
He told me something about the job placement program at full sail and how they figure their statistics... Apparently soldering is part of the course material in audio engineering- you know, so you can maintain the studio equipment. If they find a job for you soldering at a widget factory they consider that a "sucessful" job placement since you are using your skills learned at Full Sail.
Whether that is true or a typical disgruntled-college-campus-dweller rumor I don't know.
bennychico11
...
Although perhaps true for some people...it doesn't mean there aren't successful grads out there. It's not the schools responsibility to get you a job...and that's what I think a lot of former grads get pissed off about. You basically go into the career placement department and tell them where you plan on moving to (or would like to move to) and they find the companies in that city for you, call them to ask if they have openings for anything, etc. IT helps if the school has connections with that studio of course. It's your job to set up the interview and actually get the job.
That was the problem with the mentality of a lot of the students who went there (other than your friend of course). They were all f*&#ing lazy idiots who would blame it on the school the first chance something didn't work out for them. Not people I would want to be working with anyway.
I don't know why everyone complains so much about the school. I have a FULL time gig. So I'm sure anyone else could get one too if they actually tried.
Btw, if you go to the Full Sail site you can see what studios some of the students are at now (at least those who bothered replying to the phone surveys they send out...I didn't so I'm not on there): http://fullsail.com/news/grads-on-the-move/recording-arts.html
and those who have credit on major albums: http://fullsail.com/news/grads-on-the-move/recording-arts.html
I'm betting many people here who complain about Full Sail or similar University grads would love to have any one of those jobs
giraffe
i love negative rep
it's great how you edited the part about an internship under a knowledgeable
engineer out of my post, so that you could better make your point.
sweet.
pipelineaudio
Well-known member
If they tech soldering at full sail than thats a GOOD thing
They used to at the Conservatory but dont always anymore
If you think there is ANY more important skill a recording school could teach you than soldering, you should be considering a new hobby or dream job
They used to at the Conservatory but dont always anymore
If you think there is ANY more important skill a recording school could teach you than soldering, you should be considering a new hobby or dream job
giraffe
i love negative rep
besides, when's the last time someone said
interviewer: what's the secret to your success mr. o'brian (whomever)
o'brian: when i was just starting out, i got to touch a neumann !
it's important to touch a board, but i'm really not sure that it's deadly important that it's an ssl and not a soundcraft.
wait, there's more.....
studio owner: we'd like to hire you boy, but first i need to know. have you ever run a u87 thru a 1073?
poor old you: well.... no.....
studio owner: get out of my sight rifraf!
interviewer: what's the secret to your success mr. o'brian (whomever)
o'brian: when i was just starting out, i got to touch a neumann !
it's important to touch a board, but i'm really not sure that it's deadly important that it's an ssl and not a soundcraft.
wait, there's more.....
studio owner: we'd like to hire you boy, but first i need to know. have you ever run a u87 thru a 1073?
poor old you: well.... no.....
studio owner: get out of my sight rifraf!
bennychico11
...
you never even said anything about a knowledgeable engineer....you just said internship
and I don't disagree with you. There are engineers you can intern with (IF you can find ones that will bring you on....even harder than finding an actual job, IMO)
And of course, how many of us actually live in a large city (LA, NY, Miami, Nashville) that are huge hubs for very knowledgeable engineers with every gear under the sun? The school I went to has more top notch gear than any of the studios here in KC
giraffe
i love negative rep
bennychico11
...
they do....it's an electronics class. It is a basic electronic class (I wish they had a more advanced one) but still taught you how to make cables, make simple circuits, etc.
I don't know what you're trying to defend here....as much as you want to bag on engineers who learn through going to school, it's still experience. No matter where you learn it. I know the old school mentality is "well, shit, if you didn't start from the bottom up interning at a studio and cleaning shit out of a toilet...then you can't become a real engineer".....it's still experience. Full Sail and many other schools are run much like a studio. You go in, and a teacher (who has been an engineer for many years) teaches you how to run things. The difference is you just pay for it. And some people learn better in a school environment with multiple different kinds of gear around them (SSL, Neve, Mackie D8B, Sony DMXR1000, Pro Control, Control 24, Pro Tools LE/HD, Nuendo, Logic, Ghost, 24 channel console, live reinforcement console, multiple MIDI devices, 96 channel console.....I don't know ANY studio near me that has all that). Again, experience.
And maybe my boss didn't ask "what's the secret to your success"....but he did ask "can you run this?"
"Yes"
But maybe I'm missing out on something...not being able to clean shit out of toilets?
P
punkorama
New member
Just to add a question in. Seems like no one has given any info about Berklee's program. If anyone had any insight i'd love to hear it since thats my 1st school of choice.
Mike
Mike
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
???
The point I was making was about the job placement. I couldn't agree more that soldering is important. I wasn't implying that they teach it in order to place students in factories.
O
ofajen
Daddy-O Daddy-O Baby
I put "others". Way back in 1984 I did take a college course in electronic music and we spent a lot of time learning about analog tape recorders and techniques of audio manipulation using tape and tape recorders and a little bit about mixing. At the time I already had my own 4-track reel machine, a synth and a few other gadgets, so I could do recording at home as well as at the electronic music lab.
Cheers,
Otto
Cheers,
Otto
bennychico11
...
that's exactly how I got into recording too (except not that far back in time
)Took an electronic music class when I was studying music comp. My first introduction to DAT, ADAT mixers, a MOOG, MIDI, Pro Tools, Digital Performer, programming plugins, etc. Before then I was listening to tonal music...and even branched off into atonal music a bit. I was confused as hell the first time I heard electroacoustic music/Musique concrète, lol. I don't care what kind of music you play, it doesn't get much avant-garde than that!
That's when I picked up a 4 track, then finally an interface to record into the computer with. Tracked my roomate and friends whenever they came over to jam. 5 of us in a tiny apartment, me with headphones on in front of a crappy computer, my roomate on sax, a pianist and a couple of brass players.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
I went to Berklee back in the 70's...but it only cost about $1500/yr back then, I believe. I went thru about 6 semesters of audio recording, but also had a full schedule of music and performance classes.
The studio back then had a MCI 1" eight track and a "blackie" MCI 24 channel board...or maybe 32. Killer mics and Big Red studio monitors, AKG BX20 spring reverb and a couple 1176...I think some Kepex stuff, Allsion Gain Brains, and that was about it.
The main thing was the talent that went thru there and you were able to mic a full jazz band,(but not always) do it in an hour, record 5 songs (from charts usually), and then the next hour, do it all over again. It was the talent that was good to deal with and how to work FAST. It was the basic core of what I learned about recording....that combined with the electronic music labs.... all Arps at the time.
I wouldn't trade those sessions and classes for anything and even though all that equipment is now obsolete, it helped to develop ears, production, and how to get something done in a set time frame. Berklee overall was a VERY positive experience. Nowadays, I think it is probably pretty expensive, so I am not sure if spending a hunk of dough would balance that out as well, but I didn't waste a penny going there.
When I left, I pretty easily got some studio gigs, and the credibilty I had with others was noticably higher than it was prior to going.
It was hard to keep up technically on an instrument by the 8th semester with some of the cats there, but my ears learned a ton.
The studio back then had a MCI 1" eight track and a "blackie" MCI 24 channel board...or maybe 32. Killer mics and Big Red studio monitors, AKG BX20 spring reverb and a couple 1176...I think some Kepex stuff, Allsion Gain Brains, and that was about it.
The main thing was the talent that went thru there and you were able to mic a full jazz band,(but not always) do it in an hour, record 5 songs (from charts usually), and then the next hour, do it all over again. It was the talent that was good to deal with and how to work FAST. It was the basic core of what I learned about recording....that combined with the electronic music labs.... all Arps at the time.
I wouldn't trade those sessions and classes for anything and even though all that equipment is now obsolete, it helped to develop ears, production, and how to get something done in a set time frame. Berklee overall was a VERY positive experience. Nowadays, I think it is probably pretty expensive, so I am not sure if spending a hunk of dough would balance that out as well, but I didn't waste a penny going there.
When I left, I pretty easily got some studio gigs, and the credibilty I had with others was noticably higher than it was prior to going.
It was hard to keep up technically on an instrument by the 8th semester with some of the cats there, but my ears learned a ton.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
btw, I skipped the whole ADAT revolution and chugged thru it with my own 8 track until the mid 90's when I got into computer recording and never looked back. I've got Sonar 7pe now, a Layla3G and some decent JBL monitors, mics, etc... I think it kicks butt over any studio I ever worked in. No...I don't have 25 mics going anymore, but the flexibilty is in another universe.
bennychico11
...
Good story. Berklee is still a good school, IMO. Especially if you are more interested in the musical/performance world of it all. I think the problem, as you noted and is the same with most schools, is the tuition. Tuition has gone up for education but job salary hasn't followed.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
No kidding. I was able to get $300/night with my rock and roll band in the early 70's. Went to school...got $300/night. Then came the 90's... $300/night.... and I see bands today that still take $300/night. We're talking bar gigs now... That $300/night nowadays would have been about 10 bucks take home pay per person, back when....
yeah yeah... Berklee was supposed to make me rich and famous. But that's why I went the studio route. Actually made more $ that way. But the other problem...which aint no secret, unless you're God on the knobs, your competion is Joe Dude that will work for free, just to get his foot in the door.
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We make $350 a night at one of the clubs here on the island. 
Live music is all but dead at its entry level. All the best musicians around today dut their teeth playing the constant gigs that were only possible in the 70's and 80's... and the new kids don't have that chance and their chops show it.
Back in the bay area there were a proliferation of $25/hr recording studios- some of them fairly well decked out- right around the time The Plant was closing its doors. Hard to pay off the student loan at that rate unless you're actually booked solid. One had a rack full vintage gear... I had to wonder if his parents bought those for him or if he really wasn't concerned about the studio breaking even.
Live music is all but dead at its entry level. All the best musicians around today dut their teeth playing the constant gigs that were only possible in the 70's and 80's... and the new kids don't have that chance and their chops show it. Back in the bay area there were a proliferation of $25/hr recording studios- some of them fairly well decked out- right around the time The Plant was closing its doors. Hard to pay off the student loan at that rate unless you're actually booked solid. One had a rack full vintage gear... I had to wonder if his parents bought those for him or if he really wasn't concerned about the studio breaking even.
MessianicDreams
New member
Currently finishing off my last night year doing my degree in sound engineering. I think the reason that so many people are against going the education route is that there are a large number of courses out there that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. However, the course that i'm on allows me 24/7 access to 7 pro studios, letting me learn more desks and console architectures that would be possible in 98% of pro studios, not to mention all the sound reinforcement gear. It has also given me a very in-depth knowledge of things like digital audio circuitry etc. And whilst I've been studying I've also been interning at a studio - which i'm 75% sure to get a job at once I graduate.
I think my outlook would feel a lot bleaker had I just gone and done the internshi-route on it's own.
I think my outlook would feel a lot bleaker had I just gone and done the internshi-route on it's own.