Using MSH1's and some other stuff

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cheapskate

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Hi again everyone, well I finally got around to ordering a couple of the msh1's from Jon and they arrived today!!! so now I'm desperate to use them.

They have been purchased with the intention of mic'ing a choir of primary school age children. What we would like to do is use them both to record the choir (using a Fostex MR8hd) as well as use them in live performance (with a yamaha EMX212 mixer/amp).

In addition to the MSH1's we also have 4 mucho cheapo dynamics (Peavey PVi 100's - I know, I know, please don't laugh, but they were at a special price and included a stand, carry bag, and cable for about the same as a stand would have cost)

In addition to the above, we have managed to aquire a recording of a backing track for each of the songs we intend to do which was played on a very nice (and expensive) Yamaha electric piano.

The piano accompliment has already been stored on the Fostex and I have made a cd of it for use with the mixer/amp.

On a previous thread Harvey suggested using MSH1's to record the main body of the choir (my intention is to mic any soloists separately with the dynamics- stood to side when performing live and recorded on a separate track when using the Fostex) He suggested "If there are no soloists AND you have phantom power available, I'd try the $22 Naiant MSH-1O's in wide spread positions (about 1/3 of the way in from each end of the choir)."

Ok my first dumb question, should I pan these wide left and right when recording with the fostex?

Has anyone got any suggestions for how I'm going to get the children to keep in time with the backing track? ( I know this sounds incredibily stupid but to me the obvious way would be for them to be listening to the piano track at the same time that they are singing, however, we don't have 20 pairs of headphones! I'm assuming the conductor should be wearing the headphones but will this work? will they be able to keep in time without hearing the accompliment?)

If anyone has any experience of doing something similar to this please feel free to offer any advice.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, hope it makes sense.
 
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You can have the conductor with h/phones and the kids conducted accapella - it's a risk though, as they'll have to rely heavily on the leader for pitch as well as timing.
Alt - you could have a few good voices in cans along with the conductor -& hope pitch & timing are kept in check that way - problem will be those kids singing louder & possibly off as they won't hear themselves too much in the mix.
You could bite the bullet and use a foldback speaker out front with just enough vol. for the front kids to hear. You will get bleed BUT if the backing is synched properly there shouldn't be too much of a prob.
Those Naiant mics are fabbo!
 
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I think the best idea would to definitely put a few small floor monitors or stand mounted speakers facing the kids and have them as low as they can go and still work for the kids.
Just make sure the mics are far enough in front of the speakers to reduce the track bleed as much as possible.

With kids and inexperienced people you need the recording process to be as invisible as possible or their performance will suffer.
Better to deal with a little bleed.
 
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should I pan these (mic's) wide left and right when recording with the fostex?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Good advice so far re monitoring. The kids need to hear the backing track to stay in tune and in rhythm, and you need to minimize the backing track in the sound the choir recording mic's are picking up so you don't have phase problems with the backing track when mixing. Careful setup of monitor speakers can accomplish that.
 
Another alternative

Hi,

Play the piano part in the room when they sing. If everyone can hear the piano the Naiant's will pick it up fine. Then you won't have to sync it or worry about phase problems.

You may have to adjust the placement of the speakers playing the piano part and the volume of the piano part to get a good blend with the voices and get a good piano sound on the recording.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I guess the best way will be to try both the suggested options and see which works best.
 
Now if only we can get Naiant to manufacture a $25 jecklin disk.
 
Mr. Antrobus said:
Now if only we can get Naiant to manufacture a $25 jecklin disk.
Click to expand...

I have binaural mics. But 2 omni mics pointed away from each other and about 8" or so apart with some thick reflective and/or absorbent material between them works well and produces great 3D sound.

I've used my computer monitor before as something to go between them and it worked fine.
 
cheapskate said:
...a couple of the msh1's ...use them in live performance (with a yamaha EMX212 mixer/amp)...
Click to expand...
Just noticed that... Omnis for amplifying a choir are going to be problematic (feedback). But try it. Maybe if you can get the speakers really far away from the mic's (and facing away), and get the mic's really close to the singers, but I dunno. Cardioids would be better.
 
Back to the issue at hand, Cheapskate ...

I'm just sensing this dark cloud of impending doom.

Inexperienced Engineer ... lack of cohesive plan ... a bunch of loud, obnoxious kids. :D

Sounds like a recipe for utter disaster if you ask me.

.
 
Lol, I think you could well be right chessrock! I only got involved in this because I got shown a gear list which seemed a.overpriced, b. badly matched, c. totally unsuitable for what they wanted to do with the stuff, and d. coz the choir teacher is hot.

I'm only still involved because I would rather see the stuff being used rather than sat in a cupboard gathering dust and coz the choirteacher is still hot.

To be fair, we ain't aiming too high, what we would like to do is be able to stick some .wavfiles of the songs on the school website which the kids can download if they want. We are looking to do some for christmas etc
 
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rayc said:
You can have the conductor with h/phones and the kids conducted accapella - it's a risk though, as they'll have to rely heavily on the leader for pitch as well as timing.
Alt - you could have a few good voices in cans along with the conductor -& hope pitch & timing are kept in check that way - problem will be those kids singing louder & possibly off as they won't hear themselves too much in the mix.
You could bite the bullet and use a foldback speaker out front with just enough vol. for the front kids to hear. You will get bleed BUT if the backing is synched properly there shouldn't be too much of a prob.
Those Naiant mics are fabbo!
Click to expand...

Ten pairs of earbuds will cost you under a buck apiece, or about a buck eighty after shipping. :D

(You'll spend about as much for the adapters to split them, of course, and you'll end up having to get extension cables for all of them, which adds up, so you're probably talking four or five bucks per two kids that way, but still....)
 
Thanks for the offer, however I kinda like the idea of 2 inexperienced novices fumbling around, experimenting with different positions and methods.;);)
 
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