Repair / Restoration Quote from Gibson

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zaphod B
  • Start date Start date
Zaphod B said:
To clarify things for Slowrider -

The purpose of this thread was not to solicit anyone's opinion on anything; rather, it was to inform. I never expressed a desire to attempt to refinish the guitar being discussed. I wanted to pass on the information that I received from the Gibson shop about their repair and restoration prices because I thought they might be of interest.

You've managed to turn it into another DIY / Professional mudslinging affair. :rolleyes:
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It sounds like you probably shouldn't spend the money to get it restored, if it really won't be worth it down the line. However, if you really like the playability, and want to swap out that metal-malitia pickup, why not opt for another humbucker?

It might still be a much thicker sound that the P90s, but a Gibson 57 would be a nice round tone :D

Another far easier fix would be to, with some wood carving, fashion a wooden cradle for a P90 that would fit into a humbucker-routed hole. Just off the top of my head kind of idea, but its better than nothin. Itwouldn't match the finish, but it wouldn't be intended to sit flush with the top of the guitar anyway - and I've always liked other parts on guitars made from finished wood - has a cool look. The Heritage archtop I have has a finished pickgaurd made from the same flamed Maple the top is made of, and its gorgeous.
 
Slowrider said:
When you get more life experience, especially the BS in the industry; you will learn what I mean. Until then..you'll just have to Neg away and follow your preacherman.;)
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I'm all for DIY, and many instrument repairs can be done by a reasonably competent person. But there's the rub.

You certainly have a much higher opinion of the human race than I do. Most people are incompetent at fixing things. I deal with people's fuckups on a daily basis. Many people, nice as they may be otherwise, are completely ignorant assholes when it comes dealing with areas where years of study and experience are needed to gain expertise.

Just because you can use a device, and even use it expertly, in no way gives you the skills to fix it, or even know how it works.

BTW, I appreciate the advice that Light and muttley give, but they are locked into the conservative way of doing things because that's their profession, and may not be open to new procedures and new materials to use. Many new things will be dead ends, but once in awhile something new will be better, and that's how progress is made. In dealing with objects of great value, it's best to be conservative, but otherwise, long live DIY.

Just my ignorant opinion. :)
 
crazydoc said:
Just because you can use a device, and even use it expertly, in no way gives you the skills to fix it, or even know how it works.

Just my ignorant opinion. :)
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Oh, it isn't ignorant... I have a fair bit of understanding regarding most simple mechanical devices - kitchen appliances, basic plumbing and wiring, etc. I just got a new roommate, and she had been using the stove for the first week or two she was in the apartment. Then over this past weekend, I unplugged it to use a blender I had set on top.

Well, I apparently forgot to plug it back in, and the cord was laying over the top of the range, clear to the front of the stove (it is gas, with electricity for pilot & lighting the burners when you ignite them). She was in the kitchen Monday night, continually opening the burner valve, and gas was just leaking everywhere. She couldn't understand why it wouldn't light. Opened the windows, aired the place out, plugged the stove back in, worked fine.

Now, I don't expect everyone to have a cursory knowledge of the gadgets they use, but the plug was draped right over the top of the range. You'd think it would at least occur to her to ask what the plug was for... or to move it before she tried to use the stove :confused::eek:

I really hope I won't be posting a thread here in the coming months saying my idiot roommate burnt down the house and all my audio equipment with it :mad:
 
cusebassman said:
It sounds like you probably shouldn't spend the money to get it restored, if it really won't be worth it down the line. However, if you really like the playability, and want to swap out that metal-malitia pickup, why not opt for another humbucker?

It might still be a much thicker sound that the P90s, but a Gibson 57 would be a nice round tone :D

Another far easier fix would be to, with some wood carving, fashion a wooden cradle for a P90 that would fit into a humbucker-routed hole. Just off the top of my head kind of idea, but its better than nothin. Itwouldn't match the finish, but it wouldn't be intended to sit flush with the top of the guitar anyway - and I've always liked other parts on guitars made from finished wood - has a cool look. The Heritage archtop I have has a finished pickgaurd made from the same flamed Maple the top is made of, and its gorgeous.
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Actually, the DiMarzio SD is a very good-sounding pickup in this guitar. The slighly dark sound of the LP Special complements that pickup by keeping it from being too bright and biting. The main issue is that is has a much higher output than the neck P-90. This can work in your favor - if you keep both volumes maxed (or equal), then just flipping the selector switch gives you a big gain kick at the bridge position. OTOH, using the center selector position requires balancing the volumes (running the bridge PU at about 7/10 or thereabouts seems to work) but gives me lots of tone variability.

I've given some thought in the past to something similar to your suggestion of fitting some kind of wood insert into the HB rout to be able to retrofit a P-90 again. Given that the finish is really dark at that point on the body, black would probably almost disappear. It's an option I may pursue if I want the dual P-90 setup again.

In the meantime it really needs a fret job, so that will be priority #1.

Thanks for your response. :)
 
No prob :)

Might there also be some simply way to put the equivalent of a pad on the output of the pickup directly, to get it down closer to the volume output of the other pickup (before it hits the electronics circuit)?

Alas, I know very little about electronics components, so I have no idea :(:D
 
cusebassman said:
No prob :)

Might there also be some simply way to put the equivalent of a pad on the output of the pickup directly, to get it down closer to the volume output of the other pickup (before it hits the electronics circuit)?

Alas, I know very little about electronics components, so I have no idea :(:D
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I could, but I like the gain. It pushes a tube amp really well. That PU rolls off nicely, too.
 
Zaphod B said:
Dude.

I can swap another pickup in. No problem. It's not about that.

I can't do a convincing wood plug and refinish. I've already killed the resale value of the thing by half; why would I want to make it worse?

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting your post.
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i'm with you man. not everyone has the skills of a master wood worker...though some may think they do.

definitely get a professional to do it.

edit: ok, so your not going to do it. =] thanks for the info though.
 
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Slowrider said:
Light is the preacher man who tells you are too stupid to fix something you paid for.

This asshole does that for job security, no more, no less.
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Actually, I do it because I get really depressed when people try to fix their own instruments and fuck it up to the point where, when they finally DO bring it in to us, it ends up being such a major repair that the instrument is not worth putting the money into. Most of the time, if they had just brought it to us in the first place, we could have fixed it for a very reasonable rate.

But believe what you will. The guys who know the difference will keep coming to guys like me to get it done right.

But do answer me this, how can you possibly imagine you are as good at repair work as a guy (like my shop manager) who has been doing it full time for 27 years? He has worked on at least 10,000 guitars over the years, and is the most careful, dedicated guy you will ever find. He has probably done more than 2,000 refrets in his life. Do you think you can even come CLOSE to doing it as well as he does? Hey, what do you do for a living, maybe I'll come and start doing it for you. I mean hey, all I need to do is read some shit on the internet, right?


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
So, here is another good one for you. I've got a 1934 OOO-18 in the shop right now for a major restoration (about $5,000 worth of work). Once we are done with the work, the guitar will be worth about $25,000, so it is clearly worth putting the money into. However, part of the reason it will be as valuable as it will be is because the repair work is being done by a shop with an excellent reputation, who is known by collectors and players around the country for doing excellent work.

If the guy who owns it had done the work himself, even if he had managed to do the repair to the same level of quality as our shop manager (unlikely, but who knows), the guitar would probably be worth much less than $20,000. Still valuable, but in the end he would still be losing money, because as expensive as the repair will be, having our name and reputation on the repair work makes the guitar more valuable on the market.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Right. You have to look at the value of the finished instrument, unless you really don't care about it.

That's why, in the case of my rather pedestrian LP Special, the guitar might end up only being worth the cost of a Gibson (or other respected shop) restoration...and might never even be worth that. If I do a hack job on it, it will be worth even less than what it is today, whatever that is. So in my case the best thing is to leave it alone and spend the money elsewhere.

On a rare instrument I would want the best service possible and would never entertain the thought of having work done by anyone other than a respected, recommended professional.
 
Just get some popcicle sticks, glue em to the underside of that Martin, and be done with it :D
 
yeah, i know i'm a total newbie on this forum so i'm not even gonna comment on some of the rediculous things i've seen posted here ;)
Let me assure you all though, almost every day I recieve a botched repair job that I have to do over again at what turns out to be a higher price tag than if I did it first. Just yesterday I had a les paul shipped to me from a guy in Yellowknife....typical broken peghead / neck joint....only he had already tried to glue it together with epoxy and a shoe string as a clamp:eek: ARGGGG!
and I'm not just talking about total amateurs....a lot of what i see comes straight from some repair jockey at a music store that butchered a job! Hey, i'm not saying i'm perfect....sure i make mistakes sometimes (a slip here or maybe some careless inattention there) we're all human....the difference is in the fact that I have the skills to fix my mistakes usually with no trace left behind.
I do encourage anyone to set-up thier own instruments or swap electronics etc....but if you've never done it before you'd be a fool to try to refret your Martin or Les paul. If you really feel the need to DIY, I applaude your fortitude. But please, get a junker guitar and practice on that. Then get another junker guitar and practice some more;)
my 2 cents,
Freddy
freddysfrets.com
 
Luthier said:
yeah, i know i'm a total newbie on this forum so i'm not even gonna comment on some of the rediculous things i've seen posted here ;)
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You of course realize that all the talk about epoxy, hot glue, popsicle sticks, and JB Weld was a joke, don't you?
 
And one last comment to Slow ...... everyone here knows that I'm a fan of DIY and have even disagreed with Light and Muttley (peacefully) a couple of times. There are times when I'm totally in favor of the guy doing it himself and seeing how good he can do.
But this isn't one of them.
When you talk about a guitar of value and a job that requires getting a piece of wood fit into the visible top of a git and you're hoping that it won't be noticable, no way an amateur can do it especially on his first attempt or even his fiftieth.
And this git needs refinishing and a fret job that'll require the neck to be rebound?
no way .......
I might try it because I have a long long background in working with wood as a piano tech and as a small time luthier years ago but there's no way even with the experience I have that I could do a job like Light or Muttley simply because of the experience they have.
I've tuned probably 20,000 pianos and I know for a fact that it qualifies me in all sorts of small non-obvious ways to diagnose and pick the best most efficient procedure to repair.
The same applies to Light and Muttley ....... working on thousands of gits puts them in a mode where they repair much like a musician plays ....... don't really have to think a lot ...... just get into the flow and work.
Even though I often jump in and support the "do it yourself" mantra, I respect their skills and as someone who works in a somewhat related field, I know that they know what they're talking about way more than even the best of us DIY'ers.
And there's the matter of tools. The good tools you need to do a good job on this aren't cheap ...... I have like $500 worth of tools just in my little toolbox I carry to tunings. You can't buy them at Walmart so the piano supply houses charge the shit out of you for them.
Same with git tools ..... to get the tools he needs to do that job he could easily spend $1500 or more. Hell ...... now he's most of the way there .... may as well let Gibson do it for that much.
 
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