G
pandamonk
Well-known member
I don't see any reason for the vestibule. Usually you want a two door system, but in this case, you've got a window in your control room anyway. So any good that you get out of the 2 door system will be lost out the window.
So I'd extend the control room into the vestibule, and widen it a little. This is what I'd do:
So I'd extend the control room into the vestibule, and widen it a little. This is what I'd do:
Attachments
Last edited:
G
GCR
New member
I guess my thought for the vestibule was 2fold... One, it would serve what vestibules are designed for, a transition point for controlling temperature. Being the HVAC end of things is going to be another challenge, I figured this would allow a space to control the loss of heat/air.
Two, further separation of sound from one space to another.
However, your changes make sense.
The addition of a window is an attempt to at least get some natural light into the Live Room w/o the hassle of having penetrations in it.
And I has thinking commercial grade French Doors throughout to further aid in allowing light through the spaces.
I like your changes... How did you alter my Drawing? It's very clean. Do you have AutoCAD too? SketchUp Maybe? If so, are you an Architect/Designer?
PS* I'm of Scottish Descent.
Last edited:
pandamonk
Well-known member
Good ol' MS paint, haha. I do a lot of designs in paint for these forums, so i can use it quite well now.
I'd put all the HVAC equipment, ducts etc, above the ceiling of the control room, if that's possible, as it seems you will be lowering the ceiling, and there will be a fair bit of room up there.
You're right, it would help to separate sound, but with the window, i don't see much point. And with the window in the control room, there is no need for the double door to the outside, as the sound will pass through the window.
I think french doors are a good idea also...
G
GCR
New member
Thats a very inventive use of that program...
With that design, I would leave the ceiling open like in the Live Room.
HVAC is still up in the air at this point. A forced air system would probably be too expensive and overkill for a space this small, and I would have to add a fuel tank of some type. I'm thinking (2) separate AC Units (The Thru-Wall Type) and electric baseboard or other Electric Type for heat.
I figured the sound in the control room would not be as intense as the sound in the Live Room, so I figured I could get away w/ a window in there. The window is not a "Must" though and can be deleted if it's going to be a problem.
pandamonk
Well-known member
I agree, the sound won't be as intense, so i think the window should be fine.
Get a single glaze for outside, and inside, as far away as possible, instead of a double glazed window. You don't need to angle them either. The only benefits of angling, are that you can see better through window, light reflections are aimed to the ground, and an acoustic benefit of having it non parallel with the opposite wall/window. However, it reduces the effectiveness of isolation.
If you are going to angle, make it very slight, and towards the back of the control room, IMO.
How will the ceiling be angled if left open? If angled towards the back of the control room, that's great, anything else won't be good.
edit: the roof is pitched. Leaving it open isn't such a good idea. You want the sound to be aimed towards the back, which will happen for the first half, but then the 2nd will reflect back towards you, screwing the sound. So unless you're gonna add absorption on the back half of the ceiling, then I'd suggest having a flat ceiling, or angling the ceiling towards the back, like so: (although this may not be practical)
Get a single glaze for outside, and inside, as far away as possible, instead of a double glazed window. You don't need to angle them either. The only benefits of angling, are that you can see better through window, light reflections are aimed to the ground, and an acoustic benefit of having it non parallel with the opposite wall/window. However, it reduces the effectiveness of isolation.
If you are going to angle, make it very slight, and towards the back of the control room, IMO.
How will the ceiling be angled if left open? If angled towards the back of the control room, that's great, anything else won't be good.
edit: the roof is pitched. Leaving it open isn't such a good idea. You want the sound to be aimed towards the back, which will happen for the first half, but then the 2nd will reflect back towards you, screwing the sound. So unless you're gonna add absorption on the back half of the ceiling, then I'd suggest having a flat ceiling, or angling the ceiling towards the back, like so: (although this may not be practical)
Attachments
Last edited:
NL5
Unpossible!
I would certainly consider splayed walls. You will give up a bit of floorspace, but the improvement in sound will be immense.
G
GCR
New member
That Glazing detail was taken from the SAE website under window/door construction.
As for the ceiling, architecturally, it would be nice to get as much height in the room as possible, but form follows function, so I'll have to consider that.
You specified to specific panel type for the control room in your drawing.
Cab you provide a link to those panel types, or the materials to make them.
Innovations
New member
On some of the issues being raised here.
I agree with Tex that you should consider the one room design if this is principally a practice space witht he option for recording, particularly if you are also participating in the recording as a musician.
Second, in the interest of conserving space you might consider a combination vestibule/ vocal booth.
Also consider some space for lockable storage.
You are not at the point where you need to give consideration to your HVAC system. All this work to create a room in a room will be for naught if your ventilation is a great big hole letting sound in and out.
I agree with Tex that you should consider the one room design if this is principally a practice space witht he option for recording, particularly if you are also participating in the recording as a musician.
Second, in the interest of conserving space you might consider a combination vestibule/ vocal booth.
Also consider some space for lockable storage.
You are not at the point where you need to give consideration to your HVAC system. All this work to create a room in a room will be for naught if your ventilation is a great big hole letting sound in and out.
pandamonk
Well-known member
Rigid fiberglass? Hmm, there are so many different types/similar products: OC703 or 705, mineral wool, rockwool, bonded logic ultratouch... I assume you're from the US, so i'll let someone from over there direct you to a supplier, and help you choose the right stuff for you. Once you have the rigid fiberglass, you just gota frame it in wood, and wrap the whole this with fabric. There are many many posts about this here, if you search, and also have a look here.That Glazing detail was taken from the SAE website under window/door construction.
As for the ceiling, architecturally, it would be nice to get as much height in the room as possible, but form follows function, so I'll have to consider that.
You specified to specific panel type for the control room in your drawing.
Cab you provide a link to those panel types, or the materials to make them.
Yeh, i've seen that from SAE. The only reason is light and sound reflections. It, however, reduces isolation. You wan the most space between each plane for most isolation. Angling reduces the space, so therefore, reduces isolation.
Reflections from glass are quite bad though, i believe, and with another window across from it, it won't help. But these are both behind your ears, and any sound that hits them will be heading towards the back of the room anyway, where it'll be absorbed. You could help this sound along to the back, by adding a slight angle towards the back wall. This will also reduce the problems between the two parallel windows.
pandamonk
Well-known member
Square is bad. You never want square, especially not cube. Rectangular, is ok, with acoustic treatment, and splayed walls are good too. I usually suggest rectangular rooms, treating problems with rigid fiberglass panels. As does Ethan, i believe. Certainly check out that forum, and NL5s threads, and get all the free help you can!!!
NL5
Unpossible!
It's not very hard.
You won't find a design a John's site with parallel walls. To get the same effect with absorption, you would end up with a totally dead room. I would angle the ceiling as well - if that is at all possible.
Proper room design will have a bigger impact on your recordings than any gear purchase. Period. (and I'm a horrible gear slut!
)
NL5
Unpossible!
Square is bad. You never want square, especially not cube. Rectangular, is ok, with acoustic treatment, and splayed walls are good too. I usually suggest rectangular rooms, treating problems with rigid fiberglass panels. As does Ethan, i believe. Certainly check out that forum, and NL5s threads, and get all the free help you can!!!
Rectangle will still create some pretty vicious room nodes, but yes, it's better than square, which is better than cubed............
Go to John Sayers and let them tear apart your design - hands down the best thing I ever did for my studio!
pandamonk
Well-known member
For some reason, i seem to trust ethan's advice, moreso than john or anyone. Although, i think if john was, still, the expert here, then i'd think differently.It's not very hard.
You won't find a design a John's site with parallel walls. To get the same effect with absorption, you would end up with a totally dead room. I would angle the ceiling as well - if that is at all possible.
Proper room design will have a bigger impact on your recordings than any gear purchase. Period. (and I'm a horrible gear slut!
I certainy trust john's advice, and yours, that non parallel walls are better. I certainly believe that, as does ethan(i think). But i believe that you can have a great room just treating with absorption, without having it totally/too dead. I believe it is much easier to design and build, and therefore, i always suggest rectangular before splayed.
Doesn't it matter a great deal what angles you have etc? Adn aren't there a lot of "rules"? Actually, i'd lvoe to learn more about it. Any good info? I think i signed up to johns site, but i always end up coming back to here and forgetting other forums
.
NL5
Unpossible!
Doesn't it matter a great deal what angles you have etc? Adn aren't there a lot of "rules"? Actually, i'd lvoe to learn more about it. Any good info? I think i signed up to johns site, but i always end up coming back to here and forgetting other forums
The walls are supposed to be splayed 1" per foot IIRC.
As far as Ethan vs. John, I don't think there is any disagreement. Most people are mixing in a room that was NOT designed to mix music in, so they have a much greater need to "fix" it. A rectangular room will have some pretty serious standing waves, and hence, some pretty serious nodes. Why not eliminate the standing wave rather than trying to "fix" it? I still have some heavy duty absorbers up, but my room is pretty damn flat, and translates super easily.
Pandamonk - go on John Sayers site and look at all the designs. No parallel walls. None.
BushmasterM4
Well-known member
With your space restraints, I would just do one big room. I started my build last year at this time and my space is 30x30 with 10ft ceilings. My control room takes up 100 sq. ft. (roughly 10x10) and is very spacious. Here is the thing. I still have not installed the glass in that room, because I really at this point dont see the need. I did a control room because I had the space. In the real world I have yet to run into a situation where I needed the isolation the glass or the room for that fact provides. When recording people always keep quiet and when mixing outside noise as far as talk between band members doesnt effect me. And since you are doing this for a primary place to jam, I would just do the big open room. Here is one picture of part of my space
