Distorted guitar mids

  • Thread starter Thread starter ecktronic
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I finally got round to posting a heavy guitar sample.

http://download.yousendit.com/3F91EDBE6976B893

I used a PRS McCarty Soapbar into a Marshall JCM2000 DSL50 into 1960 cab.
Used about 60% distortion, almost full highs, and almost no mids or lows. No presence was used and no switches were pushed in.

My guitar was set to bridge pickup with tone set to full whack!

All I did at mix down was place a low pass around 12k and a high pass around 80Hz. I used a Shure MKIII, a Beta 52A and an NT2. I double tracked the guitars so had 6 tracks of guitars. I didn't spend much time mixing as I waswanting the raw recorded sound more than the processed sound so yous can hear what I recorded.

Cheers for any feedback on my shitty tone. :)

Eck
 
ecktronic said:
I finally got round to posting a heavy guitar sample.

http://download.yousendit.com/3F91EDBE6976B893

I used a PRS McCarty Soapbar into a Marshall JCM2000 DSL50 into 1960 cab.
Used about 60% distortion, almost full highs, and almost no mids or lows. No presence was used and no switches were pushed in.

My guitar was set to bridge pickup with tone set to full whack!

All I did at mix down was place a low pass around 12k and a high pass around 80Hz. I used a Shure MKIII, a Beta 52A and an NT2. I double tracked the guitars so had 6 tracks of guitars. I didn't spend much time mixing as I waswanting the raw recorded sound more than the processed sound so yous can hear what I recorded.

Cheers for any feedback on my shitty tone. :)

Eck
Click to expand...
FWIW, just an observation, I've noticed your mixes are really bright. maybe your mixing position is a bit too dark.
 
ecktronic said:
I finally got round to posting a heavy guitar sample.

http://download.yousendit.com/3F91EDBE6976B893

I used a PRS McCarty Soapbar into a Marshall JCM2000 DSL50 into 1960 cab.
Used about 60% distortion, almost full highs, and almost no mids or lows. No presence was used and no switches were pushed in.

My guitar was set to bridge pickup with tone set to full whack!

All I did at mix down was place a low pass around 12k and a high pass around 80Hz. I used a Shure MKIII, a Beta 52A and an NT2. I double tracked the guitars so had 6 tracks of guitars. I didn't spend much time mixing as I waswanting the raw recorded sound more than the processed sound so yous can hear what I recorded.

Cheers for any feedback on my shitty tone. :)

Eck
Click to expand...


I think your power tubes may be shot. It has that real loose, grainy crackly bottom end to it. The low end going to shit is the first sign of shitty power tubes.

Second, maybe you should throw up a couple more mics. A room mic or 2. Tape some PZMs to the side of the cab. Oh and 1 of those wireless lectern mics, they always kick ass.


Ok, I'm just being a smartass. But, why don't you try getting a good sound with 1 mic first. If you can't do that, 3 will only make it worse. Seriously dude use 1.
 
HangDawg said:
I think your power tubes may be shot. It has that real loose, grainy crackly bottom end to it. The low end going to shit is the first sign of shitty power tubes.

Second, maybe you should throw up a couple more mics. A room mic or 2. Tape some PZMs to the side of the cab. Oh and 1 of those wireless lectern mics, they always kick ass.


Ok, I'm just being a smartass. But, why don't you try getting a good sound with 1 mic first. If you can't do that, 3 will only make it worse. Seriously dude use 1.
Click to expand...

Cheers for taking time to listen to my sample.
The sample is only mixed a bit. The drums aren't finished as the bass, vocals, other guitar etc haven't been recorded yet. And the guitar I have recorded I haven't done any cuts apart from high and low pass.
How bad do you think that guitar tone is?

Personally I think its maybe 40% of the way there.

Cheers,
Eck
 
Listening to that I'd say the same thing again, Turn up them mids and bass and a bit less treble.

Part of the big amp sound is a 12'' speaker kicking you in the stomach for every chug (provided the speakers your listening from are big and up loud enough)

Seriously take a listen to what you like in a recording of your favorite amp and analyze it

The way I look at amp controls follows
Bass: turn up to shake some nuts turn down to thin the sound somewhat
Mids: the chainsaw effect up for that trusted old rusty one that will always cut through or scooped for that brand new haven't really tried it out in a proper environment sound (i.e. up cuts through in a mix more obviously down sounds nice on its own but lacks a lot in a band or studio situation)
Treble: too much will make you ears bleed to little and it sounds like the amps under water

Note: this way of thinking only really applies to amps controls not mixing any other instruments etc. (at least for me any way)
 
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i know you want to fix the problem in the tracking stage and so did i when i first approached it but i realized that when i put the mic off axis and to the side it sounded less harsh but also a little lifeless. there is a balance between allowing just a bit of harshness come through so you can still have a sparkling high end and then kill of a little of the problem area in mix down. Now I know frequencies and mixes are all independent of eachother but i've found that in distorted guitar, the biggest problem freq out there is 3.6k. if you give your eq a tight q and boost it at 3.6 you'll hear what i mean. so, i tend to cut about 3 db with a q of about 4 and it seems to mellow out that harshness and i still have my high end that i want because i didn't go too far off axis. hope this helps,

PAul
 
ecktronic said:
Cheers for taking time to listen to my sample.
The sample is only mixed a bit. The drums aren't finished as the bass, vocals, other guitar etc haven't been recorded yet. And the guitar I have recorded I haven't done any cuts apart from high and low pass.
How bad do you think that guitar tone is?

Personally I think its maybe 40% of the way there.

Cheers,
Eck
Click to expand...

It's really hard to hear. What is there is pretty bright. Not near enough low mids and lows.


Chessrock is right I think, you have a tendancy to mix/track pretty bright. That mastering you did of my tune was pretty sizzlely.
 
Eck, I realize this may be a difficult pill to swallow for a guy who bills himself to have "million dollar ears," and professes to be a "mixing/mastering" engineer and all ...

... but have you considered the possibility that your hearing might be a little off in the higher frequencies? Or that perhaps your mixing environment is out of whack?

.
 
I'd guess his ears are ok and it's the environment that's killing him. Probably one of those studios that placed rugs on the walls for sound treatment.
 
NYMorningstar said:
I'd guess his ears are ok and it's the environment that's killing him. Probably one of those studios that placed rugs on the walls for sound treatment.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna second that, it could be his monitors as well
Mixing with my monitors in the room i have tends to make me over compensate on the bass and i have to constantly refrain from eq boosts in that area. I guess he might have the reverse situation and hasn't realised it?
 
chessrock said:
Eck, I realize this may be a difficult pill to swallow for a guy who bills himself to have "million dollar ears," and professes to be a "mixing/mastering" engineer and all ...

... but have you considered the possibility that your hearing might be a little off in the higher frequencies? Or that perhaps your mixing environment is out of whack?

.
Click to expand...
It can be pretty hard to judge the highs on my setup yeah, I sometimes use reference mixes to keep me in the right.
I do hate muddy dull mixes, but I have heard some pretty nasty harsh commercial releases.

Eck
 
HangDawg said:
It's really hard to hear. What is there is pretty bright. Not near enough low mids and lows.


Chessrock is right I think, you have a tendancy to mix/track pretty bright. That mastering you did of my tune was pretty sizzlely.
Click to expand...

I still cant hear it being too harsh, I honestly couldn't bring any low end into the mix without it being messy sounding. I didn't try using multi-band compression but I shouldn't have to need to use that to fix a mix.
I A/B my version against Deftones "Shove it", maybe I like mixes that are brighter than you. The low end in "Shove it" is nice and big but I couldnt get it that big with your song so thats why the low end might have been a be a bit light sounding to you which in turn would accentuate the high mids and highs.

Can you honestly not hear the amount of mud in your mix until I control the low mids? The change is between 13 and 14 secs.

http://download.yousendit.com/19A038CD104B5AB0

Eck
 
ecktronic said:
I still cant hear it being too harsh, I honestly couldn't bring any low end into the mix without it being messy sounding. I didn't try using multi-band compression but I shouldn't have to need to use that to fix a mix.
I A/B my version against Deftones "Shove it", maybe I like mixes that are brighter than you. The low end in "Shove it" is nice and big but I couldnt get it that big with your song so thats why the low end might have been a be a bit light sounding to you which in turn would accentuate the high mids and highs.

Can you honestly not hear the amount of mud in your mix until I control the low mids? The change is between 13 and 14 secs.

http://download.yousendit.com/19A038CD104B5AB0

Eck
Click to expand...

I've had other people here listen and say mine is too bright and lacks low mids. And they aren't noobs either. Someone is hearing shit wrong and I'm starting to think it may be you. That last clip you posted had absolutely no balls to that guitar. It was way in the back and full of searing highs. And my clip that you mastered is just searing high end and highly compressed. I'd say your room is fucked or your ears are fucked.


Here's the thread.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=2672962#post2672962
 
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HangDawg said:
I've had other people here listen and say mine is too bright and lacks low mids. And they aren't noobs either. Someone is hearing shit wrong and I'm starting to think it may be you. That last clip you posted had absolutely no balls to that guitar. It was way in the back and full of searing highs. And my clip that you mastered is just searing high end and highly compressed. I'd say your room is fucked or your ears are fucked.


Here's the thread.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=2672962#post2672962
Click to expand...

Im not trying to have a shoot out with you or anything.
But if anyone thinks that your mix was low mid thin then honestly they cannot hear, or else dont know that the muddy region lies around 290Hz.

By the way, I didn't use any compression at mastering.

Anyway as I said Im not wanting a shoot out.

Eck
 
ecktronic said:
Im not trying to have a shoot out with you or anything.
But if anyone thinks that your mix was low mid thin then honestly they cannot hear, or else dont know that the muddy region lies around 290Hz.

By the way, I didn't use any compression at mastering.

Anyway as I said Im not wanting a shoot out.

Eck
Click to expand...

Nor am I. I'm wondering why you seem to be the only one who isn't hearing the horrible high end in stuff.
 
HangDawg said:
Nor am I. I'm wondering why you seem to be the only one who isn't hearing the horrible high end in stuff.
Click to expand...

Its the high mids you will be talking about then.
Its the guitars, around 2k. I slightly boosted that region as they were flat and not sticking out in the mix.
My problem with recording guitars is kinda the same as yours in the way that you can't get nice present clear mids without them sounding harsh.

Eck
 
eck, I just listened to your MySpace clips. If you're using upper mids and lower highs to mask muddiness, you're succeeding at the expense of balance. Hopefully your room needs tuning. I am absolutely not itching for a pissing match, just my observation... FWIW
 
Just an idea but have you tried the mesa? if the marshalls throwing problems, try the mesa! it might work out better for you. that said I always find mesas too smooth for metal (I know ther a staple in the metal industry) but marshalls seem to growl more especially for the sound your going for (well at least in the clips i heard)

My preferences aside Its worth a try!
 
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