Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[wreckd504]

Sorry, but how can you explain to me how it isn't black and white? If you paid for the program you are using it legally. If you didn't you are using it illegally..no?

I don't get the imaginery line metaphor, could you elaborate?

edit: this thread is a black hole you just can't get away from

 

[Toker41]

I'm not trying to justify stealing, although I believe there are serious mitigating factors involved in this type of "stealing." It's certainly not as black and white as some people make it our to be... But some people think they should deport 12 million functioning members of society because they broke a law about crossing an imaginary line too. So...

I happen to be one of those that believe in that line. It's far from imaginary, and I wouldn't expect a common thief to understand the sacrifices that have been made to protect that line, and the importance of it.

 

[NYMorningstar]

I'm not trying to justify stealing, although I believe there are serious mitigating factors involved in this type of "stealing." It's certainly not as black and white as some people make it our to be... But some people think they should deport 12 million functioning members of society because they broke a law about crossing an imaginary line too. So...

Weren't you the one who came on this thread calling people pussies? Now you are backing off your own supposed beliefs. If you're a thief, have the balls to say ya, I'm a thief, I lie and I'm here to bust your balls about it. Then stick to your story instead of waffling.

"I'm not trying to justify stealing", what a crock of crap that is. "serious mitagating factors", another shield for the little ole you. This only tells me you have a lot of growing up to do.

You should really give some thought to the idea that in the end you will be held accountable and have to find remorse from somewhere. How about learning a little 'love thy neighbor', is that too much to ask?

The sad truth is yes, because if you can't take care of you, you're not much good to anyone else.

 

[wreckd504]

I wonder if there are a large amount people who normally wouldn't steal things, but when it comes to software, do it anyway because the desire to have/use those expensive, normally out of reach programs, is either overwhelming...or just too tempting.

Maybe they just haven't got their head philosophically around the ethics of piracy, or maybe have and are avoiding thinking too much about it, so then they can continue to do it.

 

[mrT]

You should really give some thought to the idea that in the end you will be held accountable and have to find remorse from somewhere.

If you are seriously suggesting that I might go to Hell for stealing software on the internet well... That's pretty fucked.

 

[wreckd504]

Why do you need there to be a divine consequence for you to do the right thing?


Also you never explained the mitigating factors, and why you think it isn't black and white.

can you explain to me how it isn't black and white? If you paid for the program you are using it legally. If you didn't you are using it illegally..no?

[no sarcasm, serious question] Are you someone who is into other criminal activities? Do you ever shop lift? Break into cars? Do you earn all you're income through law abiding means?

 

[mrT]

Why do you need there to be a divine consequence for you to do the right thing?

I don't... I just think that saying someone might go to hell for this is something most people would disagree with.

Also you never explained the mitigating factors, and why you think it isn't black and white.

just start at the top and read down. You'll find them.

[no sarcasm, serious question] Are you someone who is into other criminal activities? Do you ever shop lift? Break into cars? Do you earn all you're income through law abiding means?

Shall I speak into your shirt?

 

[TerraMortim]

That's like saying a Jeweler who leaves his Jewelry out on his porch in a bad neighborhood is not in any way responsible for the theft.

Get real. They make a product that is easy to steal so it's stolen. You ever hear a Jeweler complain about how much a good safe costs? NO! They charge people a little more money to cover it and just consider it the price of doing business. A lot of industries would have an easier time if people weren't... people. But they are so you deal with it in the way that maximizes your profit. Which is exactly what they have done.

If they wanted to end piracy they would... end of story

hmmm actually lol if a jeweler did that he should be shot for being such a dumbfuck....then his jewels stolen and sold to pay for his grave site to be bombed with tactical nukes. Then there should be a national holiday in which people come to the crater where he was once buried and take a shit into it until it resembles a giant toilet bowl.

 

[TerraMortim]

oh yeah.. you are all going to hell. Sorry to inform you. =D

 

[mrT]

oh yeah.. you are all going to hell. Sorry to inform you. =D

maybe so but at least not for this shit...

 

[Toker41]

So you are saying that it isn't stealing?


Thou shall not steal, unless it is from the internet.

Please.

Are you saying you don't believe in hell, or you don't believe you will go there for stealing?

Stealing is stealing. Period. If you are going to do it, then fine, go ahead, but don't lie to yourself and pretend it's not stealing.

 

[wreckd504]

Originally posted by wreckd504

Can you explain to me how it isn't black and white? If you paid for the program you are using it legally. If you didn't you are using it illegally..no?

Originally posted by wreckd504

You never explained the mitigating factors, and why you think it isn't black and white.

Originally posted by mr t

just start at the top and read down. You'll find them.

I've read your responses, I can't see where you explained the mitigating factors, or why this issue isn't black and white. It seems pretty straight forward to me. I think the issue centers around the fact that people want to be able to use this high end software for free, and because they know how, have a hard time stopping themselves.

Originally posted by Mrt

[no sarcasm, serious question] Are you someone who is into other criminal activities? Do you ever shop lift? Break into cars? Do you earn all you're income through law abiding means?

Shall I speak into your shirt?

I must admit, being humorously evasive is a very effective technique for not having to face your vices. I was merely trying to explain how if you don't commit crimes in other facets of your life, specifically theft, why do you think its ok to steal software? If you don't steal anything usually, how do you separate software piracy? I'm sure you'll have a funny comeback.

 

[mrT]

I've read your responses, I can't see where you explained the mitigating factors, or why this issue isn't black and white.

Apparently the police and distric attorneys feel that there are mitigating factors invovled. Why else wouldn't these people be prosecuted for criminal theft for using warez? And I'm not talking about those who distibute the software. Just the end user. Elsewise wouldn't microsoft (or any company really) just easly forward information to the local athorities when they detect pirated software through WGA?

I also believe that the software companies share some liability to this also. If you can get a cracked version of a program before its commercial release (which seems fairly common) how can you really say that the copy protection in place is meaningful? Like I said. It's their responsibility to assure that their product isn't easily stolen. Just like ANY... I repeat... ANY other industry would. and I use the term "stolen" loosely to appease some of you. becuase I don't believe that I ever stole any software. If you want to say I broke the EULA then go ahead. But I think there is a deffinate difference in breaking the terms of a usage agreement and theiving actual tangable goods. The term is just used to demonize the activity.

And besides you aren't buying the software when you pay for it. Only for the right to use it. So downloading it isn't immoral or illegal.

And just so you know I'm not trying to change anyones mind here. Just putting out how I feel about it. Becuase I got suckered into this damn thread again... Fuck!

 

[wreckd504]

So you're saying that downloading a cracked version of a program isn't stealing because you didn't crack it? Or its not stealing because you can't hold it in your hand?



You are either 19 or 20 years old, or Richard Stallman.

Have a read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement_of_software




Also, this could be your new anthem

http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.html

 

[robin watson]

Jeezuz, man, get laid, whatever it takes.

What is it next, you've never copied a CD in yer 17 precious years on this planet?

So you're saying that downloading a cracked version of a program isn't stealing because you didn't crack it? Or its not stealing because you can't hold it in your hand?



You are either 19 or 20 years old, or Richard Stallman.

Have a read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement_of_software




Also, this could be your new anthem

http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.html

 

[wreckd504]

Read the last few pages before you jump to any assumptions, few pages back i mentioned i had previously. However i don't care if people do or don't, we're having a discussion about whether it is stealing to use pirated software.

Awesome contribution to the thread though robin.

 

[mrT]

So you're saying that downloading a cracked version of a program isn't stealing because you didn't crack it? Or its not stealing because you can't hold it in your hand?

I'm saying that downloading cracked software isn't illegal... period. Distributing it is and using it is (kind of, haven't heard about any punishment other than monitary for this) but just having it is not. Because at least in theory whenever you pay for software the actual data is free. Your use of it is what you pay for.

 

[danny.guitar]

I'm saying that downloading cracked software isn't illegal... period. Distributing it is and using it is (kind of, haven't heard about any punishment other than monitary for this) but just having it is not. Because at least in theory whenever you pay for software the actual data is free. Your use of it is what you pay for.

Any software EULA will state something like "copying, distributing, publishing is strictly prohibited", or something to that effect.

And it IS stealing.

You're taking something that costs money, downloading it illegally (yes, downloading pirated software is also illegal believe it or not) and using an unlicensed (or stolen) serial.

Also, when you buy software the data is not 'free', it is also protected (by copyright laws) which is why it's illegal to buy it and then distribute it.

 

[mrT]

yes, downloading pirated software is also illegal believe it or not

I couldn't find anything that stated that only downloading a ware is illegal. Not saying you're wrong. Just that I couldn't find it. please link it.

and why aren't the police raiding people if it's such a bad thing? I'm sure there are THOUSANDS of ordinary (I.E. noncommercial) people that would have a significant amount worth of downloaded software. Why aren't they prosecuted as felons when they use it in a not-for-profit capacity like someone who stole any other large amount of product would be?


and just out of curiosity... Do you have the compulsory mechanical license to distribute those covers on your website?

http://www.harryfox.com/public/songfile.jsp

here's the link to do that if you already haven't. But you probably were already on that shit because you seem pretty dedicated to upholding copyright laws.

 

[NYMorningstar]

and why aren't the police raiding people if it's such a bad thing? I'm sure there are THOUSANDS of ordinary (I.E. noncommercial) people that would have a significant amount worth of downloaded software. Why aren't they prosecuted as felons when they use it in a not-for-profit capacity like someone who stole any other large amount of product would be?

Are you saying that something isn't illegal because it's not enforced?