finding it impossible to stay in time when singing and playing guitar at same time...

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kratos

New member
No problem in staying in time to the music if i play the instruments separately but the moment i combine the two i constantly lose time. The thing is i can sing while playing the guitar but add a metronome/backing instruments and somewhere between the song i always seem to be playing off time.

Help:(
 
Think about this:

Do you drive a stick shift? I ask because you're doing four things at the same time - steering with your left hand, shifting with your right hand, accelerating and braking with your right foot, and clutching with your left foot.

Four completely different functions, one per limb, all being executed at the same time.

That's all singing and playing an instrument is - doing different things at the same time with different parts of your body, and if you practice over and over, at some point your body will learn to cooperate.

Here is an exercise I've used to coach vocalists who also wanted to play guitar at the same time, and struggled with the mechanics and timing. Basically, I'm having them sing the chorus eight times in a row with a metronome going, as follows:

First, I have them sing the chorus twice a-capella. No music, no guitar.

Second, while singing the chorus twice again, they strum the first chord of the chorus in quarter notes - not changing the chord at all to match - it's a key marker and the focus is on keeping the quarter notes chords on time.

Third, while singing the chorus twice again, they strum all the chords of the chorus also in quarter notes, changing the chords accordingly. Keep on the quarter notes though.

Fourth, while singing the chorus twice again, they strum all the chords as they are to be played - not necessarily on quarter notes, following the song as it should be.

Most vocalists who are trying to add guitar to their performance will struggle with the third, or fourth steps. All that takes is practice and lots of it.

I've had great success with this method, and know that you're not going to get fantastic results the first time.

It's just the matter of training your brain, and that takes repetition. I have some other exercises that are more advanced, and I deliberately picked songs for my vocalists that were fun, simple basic rocks songs typically where the chorus is fairly simple. It's not the material that matters anywhere near as much as focusing on the timing issues and trying to be more precise as you reattempt the eight chorus method I put forth.
 
Practice is the only way you're gonna combine the two. You have to have both parts (guitar/vocals) down in your sleep so you're completely comfortable doing them.

Secondly, you must practice with a drum machine or metronome if you want to develop a good steady rhythm. It lacks feel but it does develop solid timing.

That will go a long way to making you a better player and versatile. A lot of recording is done with a click track which is basically a metronome. Makes it easy for others to track their stuff and edit if the tracks are all aligned timing wise.

When I play I find myself thinking about all sorts of things other than what I'm doing - like work, chores, things I forgot to do today, etc etc. That's how familiar I am with the songs I play.

I'm no Yngwie but I can strum while singing and throw a simple lead in during the break.

And don't try to play something really difficult. Just strum the rhythm. You can add leads or complex rhythms during the break.

If you stick with it you will be able to do this...:cool:
 
It's strange - I feel the opposite. I don't lose timing -

But I've found I sing much better while I'm playing an instrument. (not just from hearing - but from recording as well!)

I don't quite like the sound though.

I just can't seem to sing - and only do that.
 
No, when recording.
You didn't specify.
But if you are going to laugh at people who offer you advice, it goes two ways.
 
I like the sound of it when the keyboard player (that's me) plays in the holes between the vocal lines. So when I'm singing I'm singing over the notes ringing out and bass and drums. That way there's lots of space in the sound.

One of my main goals is to always play as few notes as possible. Anyone can hit the target with a shotgun but to hit it with one arrow that took you a week to make... that's the way I aim to play, I usually don't, but that's my goal.

If I do play on top of singing I try to make it punch just a few chords with the vocal line, and try to make it blend with the vocal so it's a marriage.

A lot of times after a solo it sounds better if I just sing on top of the bass and drums for 4 -8 bars and then add keys. I like the sound of vocals and bass and drums with no chords.
 
ido1957 said:
Practice is the only way you're gonna combine the two. You have to have both parts (guitar/vocals) down in your sleep so you're completely comfortable doing them.
:
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Being working frontman for 17 years now, I can assure you that this guy is 100% correct. When I perform the only thing I am thinking about is my vocal performance.

You should be able to play the guitar part whilst having a conversation about who you did last night with your buddy. If you can't do that, it is a waste of time to move on to putting the vocal part over it. Once the guitar part is muscle memory, then you can concentrate on the singing.
 
My friend is having the same issue. I basically told him the same thing Frederic suggested. However, I didn't tell him about starting off a capella. When I was thinking of the method, I was only thinking of the playing, so I never considered the a capella beginning. That's actually really clever, and I completely support Frederic's suggestion.

However, that's not how I learned.

I've never played guitar until June 2009. That's when I got my first guitar. I learned how to play chords, and some lead. Every time I tried to sing and play, I would just get lost . . . very, very lost

Some time around May, I bought the Beatles Rock Band. I have been a passionate fan of music games since DDR. Around the time I got BRB (haha), I owned GHWT, GH5, GHVH, and GHIII (in that order). I've beaten all those songs on expert guitar, and all the songs on GHII and Rock Band when I went over friends' house who had them. So, hand coordination isn't an issue for me. But the reason why I bring these games up is that I don't encourage you to try to sing and play on any of them (that include singing). I suggest sticking with BRB. That was my first try of playing and singing, and it went pretty smoothly. I started with expert guitar and medium vocals (sorry, no prior singing background). Within a week I moved up to expert vocals, but went back to hard because the grading is very harsh to the point were singing becomes a distraction, and replaying a failed song a few times because minor mistakes isn't worth the time. Another reason why I suggest BRB is because of the songs. With regular Rock Band/2 or GH5, there's variety of vocal styles, guitar styles, causing inconsistencies with note charts that can be sung along with and difficulties. BRB is pretty consistent because anyone who is doing lead vocals is providing some sort of guitar instrument simultaneously, making it realistically convenient. Also, The Beatles' music is easier to grasp after a few listens. Really catchy tunes, enjoyable to listen to, and the guitars are memorable. Lastly, the display of the singing graph and the guitar note chart are a lot easier to follow simultaneously. I actually prefer GH's note chart, but for singing and playing purposes, RB is more comfortable. I'm still not at the level to do full on rhythm guitar with lead thrown in. At least, not the lead stuff that is obviously lead material. I can do embellishments and melodic lines, but anything that stretches too much in lead territory takes me more than 10 minutes to get down. An example:
I can do what the acoustic is doing here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxFdllo-1qs
and sing at the same time. Took me no more than a minute to really get it down.

Or do something a little more along lead, like here-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48VUJOCNSc8
and sing at the same time

But I'm sure I can't sing and play Here Comes the Sun as fast as I could learn the above two examples.

You might say, "Oh, that's a video game, blah blah blah", but this is a fun, easy, and proven way that builds the coordination. I mean, how else do I explain I was able to play A Hard Day's Night singing and playing almost effortlessly? Well, I was already getting the hang of that song before purchasing BRB, but I'm sure it was BRB that made it possible to do it with ease, as well as just picking up any song for the first time and easily sing and play at the same time.

If you can't shell out the cash, than I say try Frederic's suggestion, which I think is quite possibly more effective.
 
it's a matter of practice like most things musical. No secret tips or magic solutions ....... just practice. I can play guitar and sing anything over it ..... no problem because I gig doing that 5 and 6 nights a week.
I'm a bass player too but since I sing while playing bass much less often, I have to work up songs where I'll be doing that.
So it's just practice and getting used to doing it.
ido is partially correct. You have to have at least one of the two down so you can do it automatically and free up your attention for the other.
Doesn't matter which although I usually try to not think about the guitar and focus my attention on vocals.
 
indymusician said:
You should be able to play the guitar part whilst having a conversation about who you did last night with your buddy.
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are you bein funny, or is that a completely serious comment?
i could never ever talk to someone when i'm playing the piano or guitar.

if i do, i end up hesistating and letting the timing slide away out.

part of me thinks this is like singing, where practice is the only way to get really good.....but some people just don't have it.
(i don't mean the OP, i mean me.)
 
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Steenamaroo said:
are you bein funny, or is that a completely serious comment?
i could never ever talk to someone when i'm playing the piano or guitar.
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meh ...... it's certainly possible ..... I can totally have a conversation while playing but I don't think it's necessary to get to that point just to be able to sing and play at the same time.
Just practice and practice some more. It's the synchopations that are hard .... where you're playing one rhythmic thing and singing something that's a half beat away from what you're playing. You might have to really slow it down a LOT while you're working on that aspect of a song.
 
indymusician said:
You should be able to play the guitar part whilst having a conversation about who you did last night with your buddy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've seen guys doing this in concerts before. Guitar players leaning off stage to talk to the guitar tech and having indepth conversation and still playing. I've always wondered how they do that. Then you have Woodie Guthrie who goes through a 20 minute story :eek: while throwing out awesome finger picked riffs at whim.

Simply amazing.

To OP, like everyone said, Practice. And practice to a click track; that's something else that is difficult to do first try.
 
kratos said:
No problem in staying in time to the music if i play the instruments separately but the moment i combine the two i constantly lose time. The thing is i can sing while playing the guitar but add a metronome/backing instruments and somewhere between the song i always seem to be playing off time.

Help:(
Click to expand...

Well, I think the important question here is to ask how long you've been playing. So?
 
Chili said:
Yeah, I've seen guys doing this in concerts before. Guitar players leaning off stage to talk to the guitar tech and having indepth conversation and still playing. I've always wondered how they do that. Then you have Woodie Guthrie who goes through a 20 minute story :eek: while throwing out awesome finger picked riffs at whim.
Click to expand...

The number of times I've had to have conversations while playing guitar in a church meeting situation ! I'd be thinking 'Oh, please ! Can't this wait ?' or 'shush !' unless it was one of the kids come up to say hi or can I play on the drums after ! Sometimes I'd get thrown, not so much in terms of what I was playing, but more, forgetting how to get back to wherever I should be when the conversation was done.

I don't know if Kratos is still about but if you're looking at this thread again, there is one magic formula that will definetly guarantee that you'll be able to play and sing at the same time.....




























































PRACTICE !
 
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