Clean slate to build -- what to do?

SwissArmyKnife

New member
Within the next year or two, provided I can get my house sold, I could very well be moving into a new place, as in new construction.

The design we're looking at has a huge basement with 9-foot ceilings.

Since it's new construction, I could conceivably have recording and mixing space built by the contractors to whatever specifications I'd want, and simply roll the cost into the mortgage.

In other words, I have a clean slate. I could do almost anything I want. Can't spend tons of money, but something in the $10,000-$15,000 (max.) range probably wouldn't set my wife off too much (spending less is fine, too). None of that needs to be spent on equipment, just construction.

I would love to be able to track a 4-5 piece band.

What would you guys do? How many rooms? What kinds of dimensions, plans, etc.?

Any suggestions welcome. Have some fun with it.
 
What would you guys do?

Any suggestions welcome. Have some fun with it.

Well, the first thing I'd do is trick you into signing over the property to me ! :D

On a slightly serious note (like fraud and extortion aren't ! :laughings:), over the last 15 or so years, whenever I visit friends' new houses or flats, or many of the offices or warehouses that I deliver stuff to, I often imagine which part I'd turn into a studio and how I'd do it. It's great fun and like with 816 matt, I'm excited for you. Whatever you end up doing, have great fun doing it, whatever frustrations may rear their heads along the way. If your excitement can be communicated to your wife, all the better.
Have a look at this thread, I've personally found it fascinating thus far....

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=300469
 
I'm learning a lot from our friends here on HR. They have a lot of great things to say. Listen to them wisely, many of them have been doing this stuff for years. The one thing I have gathered and accepted is patience. Don't be in too big of a hurry. I know you are building a house and thats takes lots of time, but plan on putting a lot of time into just planning. Read around and enjoy doing it. I built my house and opted not to include the studio in the build. Maybe I should have, I could have spent a little more, but I truly believe half the fun and enjoyment is doing it yourself.

Whether you do it or your builder does it, just put a lot of thought into it.

Enjoy the process and keep everyone up to date. All the people here are very helpful and eager to help, so keep the questions coming.

Good luck and best wishes.
 
I'd keep it one big room and maybe make some portable dividers that you could set up between say a drummer and a bass player that when they are sitting down their heads were above the dividers. I think that's all you need for isolation and you could change it around as needed.

I wouldn't worry about bleed through so much, I think it's greatly exaggerated how you need to isolate everything. Since you're all playing the same song it's not as necessary as you might think.

I'd also go real easy on the sound deadening. You don't want it dead.

I'd make it look as little like a recording studio as possible and make it more a comfortable place for you and your friends. Couches, chairs... more like a living room.
 
Make sure you can get in and out easily ie......no stairs or bulkhead to get equipment to and from the studio.
Ground level with a nice paved walk
With multi level shrubberies a fountain and a hot tub, full tikki bar,Turkish bath,bar-B-Q pit,pool, heliport,rub down table,small drive in theater. :D :drunk: :cool: :eek: :laughings: :o ;) :p :rolleyes: :)
 
I'd keep it one big room and maybe make some portable dividers that you could set up between say a drummer and a bass player that when they are sitting down their heads were above the dividers. I think that's all you need for isolation and you could change it around as needed.

I wouldn't worry about bleed through so much, I think it's greatly exaggerated how you need to isolate everything. Since you're all playing the same song it's not as necessary as you might think.

I'd also go real easy on the sound deadening. You don't want it dead.

I'd make it look as little like a recording studio as possible and make it more a comfortable place for you and your friends. Couches, chairs... more like a living room.

I love all of that advice.

As far as "dead" goes, if it's a small room (I'd say 15'x17 or less), then "dead" will probably be your only option. The moral of that story is, don't make it "small". Try to get 17'x20'x10' or better...then you'll be in good shape.

Frank
 
Thanks for the encouragement.

I definitely plan on, well, planning. That's why I'm looking into it now, a couple of years out. I want to do it right ... or as right as I can afford to do it.

Some of you enjoy the building part of it. I guess I just never got into building things. Honestly, I kinda suck at it and ruin most things. I just like creating music. So I'll probably just let somebody else do it, maybe subcontract to somebody who does sound treatment on a regular basis. I just want to have a plan in mind -- know what I want, then tell somebody else to do it. :laughings:

I like the advice about making the room livable. It seems like "room within a room" kind of isolation isn't really necessary. I record in my basement now, and the only real issue I have is if my wife is watching TV in the room directly above me. But it's pretty easy to work around that now, and I can do it in the new place, too.
 
I'd say go for 2 rooms - live and control. Go with a viewing window so you can see from your mixing desk into the live room. Then start looking at stuff like traps etc. It's all maths and I'm sure those who know better than me will be happy to give you some advice on positioning etc.

Having a clean slate to work on is great - enjoy it!
 
I'd say go for 2 rooms - live and control. Go with a viewing window so you can see from your mixing desk into the live room. Then start looking at stuff like traps etc. It's all maths and I'm sure those who know better than me will be happy to give you some advice on positioning etc.

A two-room buildout can be a very expensive, time-consuming mistake if the total space is too small. We need to know what the potential room size is first.

Frank
 
What would you guys do?

Way to many issues to address in a short forum post. Especially with very little info on the future building plan. But heres a few for starters, although each have many other issues and solutions.

First off, my disclaimer. I certainly do NOT claim to be an expert on any studio related subjects.. However, there is a member here who IS. Rod Gervais . Buy his book...HOME STUDIOS..BUILD IT LIKE A PRO:D You will learn more than you could possibly EVER learn from forums.

But here are a few of my own considerations.

As far as isolating the basement from the rest of the house and neighbors. Since you would like to record full ensembles(4 or 5 musicians), this implys a high SPL rockband. Therefore, for isolation, it requires the best TL(Transmission Loss) you can afford. However, high TL requires decoupled mass which translates into WEIGHT, detail insight, and depending on goal, a hefty budget as well.
Hence...
1. Have the floor above the basement ENGINEERED to carry a MASS load equivilent to your intended Transmission Loss target. Pre specify flooring products for rooms above to be installed over decoupling pad products for foot traffic noise reduction. Also specify sub floor products with heavier than normal mass. Possibly two layers 3/4 MDF or combinations such as drywall, plywood/MDF..or if budget/code restrictions allow, even a 2 or 3" concrete overlay. Remember, low frequency Transmission Loss is Mass/decoupling dependent. See below for recommended second leaf(basement ceiling) of this assembly.

2. Make sure the contractor guarantees the SEAL on the basement below grade foundation/slab, regardless of what scenario is used(see below)

3. Plan on one of the following TWO HVAC scenarios.
a. A completely seperate HVAC system for the basement. Specify Low velocity, high volume delivery(large ducts) and noisless registers/grills for basement areas. Locate indoor mechanicals in seperate closet decoupled from structural elements and sheithed as per TL requirements. Locate exterior mechanicals on thick concrete pads with decoupling elements. Use resiliant decoupling connectors for plenum to duct connections and isolators for rigid duct work. Use interior LINED duct everywhere with a layer of insulation on duct exterior. Normally, studio HVAC systems are designed via an NCR noise curve rating. I suggest you investigate.

Note. Typically, home studio HVAC registers PENETRATE the interior shell. Try to eliminate this by building soffited ductwork WITHIN the basement iso shell.

b. should you use ONE system for both the basement and rooms above, have the ducting system for rooms above engineered in such a way that the basement ducting is seperated via a baffled plenum, and where possible, ducts to the rooms above and basement be installed in joist cavities unless a dropped ceiling is used. Also, where possible for the basement utilize duct paths with at least two 90 degree bends. Possibly use inline baffeled silencers.
Also, plan on a built in de-humidifyer as part of system.

Plan on as high as ceiling as possible, even 10-12 feet. This will allow a decoupled drop ceiling load via RSIC clips/hatchannel supporting two or more layers of drywall. Planning on this in the beginning will allow other benifits such as a splayed ceiling in the CR and thick absorption/diffusion ceiling panels in both CR and Live room if space allows. Also note this. HVAC ducting in Home studios typically PENETRATE the interior shell. Having a high ceiling will allow for building a SOFFITED ductwork within the iso interior shell, thereby eliinating one big iso headache.

4. Specify the Stairwell as a Soundlock, with heavy duty door jambs and solid core doors with DOUBLE seals at both the top and bottom of the stairwell. Enclose the stairwell and shieth with drywall as per TL requirements...ie...establish TL target within budgetary and phyisical construction constraints.

Note..Typcally, a rock drummer can produce 110dba LOW FREQUENCY sounds. Financially speaking and known physics restraints suggest Transmission loss goals to completely isolate these sounds is next to IMPOSSIBLE. Do NOT think you can ever achieve this ie..100db iso at 40 hz or below..unless you have VERY DEEP POCKETS and your local Building codes allow for it.:D (do a search on Galaxy Studios for a lesson in high TL engineering enlightenment:eek:)

5. As far as interior basement construction is concerned, plan on one of various scenarios.

Room within a room construction.
a. If more than one room .. Specify ISOLATED slabs with each room perimeter wall foundation footings seperated from building shell footings. Specify sealed expansion joints products.
b. If single room...see a.
c. For ceiling, either suspend multi layer drywall ceiling from Iso clips/hatchannel hung from engineered joist system, or build seperate joist system supported by interior shell walls. Although, this takes more height away from available basement room height.

Econo iso construction..meaning NO decoupled slab.
a. Use decoupling pad products to isolate interior partition wall floor plates from slab, and decoupling sway products at top plate or studs.
b. Or for perimeter walls, use furring and decoupling products such as Resiliant Channel or RSIC clip/channel type products to decouple multi layer drywall from exterior concrete perimeter walls.
c. PRE sheith floor joist cavity above with 2 layers of caulked drywall. Use Resiliant channel for decoupling econo ceiling. Address all flanking paths within joist cavities. Especially at partition wall between two basement rooms.
d. If possible, specify an isolated slab area for drums, possibly 10" or 12" thick. Specify sealed expansion joints. OR, form up a "floating" concrete drum riser. Possibly use a KIP or similar product to decouple riser from floor slab.


Well, thats all I have time for at the moment. There are tons more issues/options to address so read Rods book. As one acoustics guru puts it..."good studio building is 90% design/planning...10% construction." I used to argue that statement. Accepting enlightenment isn't easy sometimes. Till you fail. Unfortunately, hindsight in studio building isn't cheap. Nor possible sometimes.
 
Way to many issues to address in a short forum post. Especially with very little info on the future building plan. But heres a few for starters, although each have many other issues and solutions.

First off, my disclaimer. I certainly do NOT claim to be an expert on any studio related subjects.. However, there is a member here who IS. Rod Gervais . Buy his book...HOME STUDIOS..BUILD IT LIKE A PRO:D You will learn more than you could possibly EVER learn from forums.

But here are a few of my own considerations.

As far as isolating the basement from the rest of the house and neighbors. Since you would like to record full ensembles(4 or 5 musicians), this implys a high SPL rockband. Therefore, for isolation, it requires the best TL(Transmission Loss) you can afford. However, high TL requires decoupled mass which translates into WEIGHT, detail insight, and depending on goal, a hefty budget as well.
Hence...
1. Have the floor above the basement ENGINEERED to carry a MASS load equivilent to your intended Transmission Loss target. Pre specify flooring products for rooms above to be installed over decoupling pad products for foot traffic noise reduction. Also specify sub floor products with heavier than normal mass. Possibly two layers 3/4 MDF or combinations such as drywall, plywood/MDF..or if budget/code restrictions allow, even a 2 or 3" concrete overlay. Remember, low frequency Transmission Loss is Mass/decoupling dependent. See below for recommended second leaf(basement ceiling) of this assembly.

2. Make sure the contractor guarantees the SEAL on the basement below grade foundation/slab, regardless of what scenario is used(see below)

3. Plan on one of the following TWO HVAC scenarios.
a. A completely seperate HVAC system for the basement. Specify Low velocity, high volume delivery(large ducts) and noisless registers/grills for basement areas. Locate indoor mechanicals in seperate closet decoupled from structural elements and sheithed as per TL requirements. Locate exterior mechanicals on thick concrete pads with decoupling elements. Use resiliant decoupling connectors for plenum to duct connections and isolators for rigid duct work. Use interior LINED duct everywhere with a layer of insulation on duct exterior. Normally, studio HVAC systems are designed via an NCR noise curve rating. I suggest you investigate.

Note. Typically, home studio HVAC registers PENETRATE the interior shell. Try to eliminate this by building soffited ductwork WITHIN the basement iso shell.

b. should you use ONE system for both the basement and rooms above, have the ducting system for rooms above engineered in such a way that the basement ducting is seperated via a baffled plenum, and where possible, ducts to the rooms above and basement be installed in joist cavities unless a dropped ceiling is used. Also, where possible for the basement utilize duct paths with at least two 90 degree bends. Possibly use inline baffeled silencers.
Also, plan on a built in de-humidifyer as part of system.

Plan on as high as ceiling as possible, even 10-12 feet. This will allow a decoupled drop ceiling load via RSIC clips/hatchannel supporting two or more layers of drywall. Planning on this in the beginning will allow other benifits such as a splayed ceiling in the CR and thick absorption/diffusion ceiling panels in both CR and Live room if space allows. Also note this. HVAC ducting in Home studios typically PENETRATE the interior shell. Having a high ceiling will allow for building a SOFFITED ductwork within the iso interior shell, thereby eliinating one big iso headache.

4. Specify the Stairwell as a Soundlock, with heavy duty door jambs and solid core doors with DOUBLE seals at both the top and bottom of the stairwell. Enclose the stairwell and shieth with drywall as per TL requirements...ie...establish TL target within budgetary and phyisical construction constraints.

Note..Typcally, a rock drummer can produce 110dba LOW FREQUENCY sounds. Financially speaking and known physics restraints suggest Transmission loss goals to completely isolate these sounds is next to IMPOSSIBLE. Do NOT think you can ever achieve this ie..100db iso at 40 hz or below..unless you have VERY DEEP POCKETS and your local Building codes allow for it.:D (do a search on Galaxy Studios for a lesson in high TL engineering enlightenment:eek:)

5. As far as interior basement construction is concerned, plan on one of various scenarios.

Room within a room construction.
a. If more than one room .. Specify ISOLATED slabs with each room perimeter wall foundation footings seperated from building shell footings. Specify sealed expansion joints products.
b. If single room...see a.
c. For ceiling, either suspend multi layer drywall ceiling from Iso clips/hatchannel hung from engineered joist system, or build seperate joist system supported by interior shell walls. Although, this takes more height away from available basement room height.

Econo iso construction..meaning NO decoupled slab.
a. Use decoupling pad products to isolate interior partition wall floor plates from slab, and decoupling sway products at top plate or studs.
b. Or for perimeter walls, use furring and decoupling products such as Resiliant Channel or RSIC clip/channel type products to decouple multi layer drywall from exterior concrete perimeter walls.
c. PRE sheith floor joist cavity above with 2 layers of caulked drywall. Use Resiliant channel for decoupling econo ceiling. Address all flanking paths within joist cavities. Especially at partition wall between two basement rooms.
d. If possible, specify an isolated slab area for drums, possibly 10" or 12" thick. Specify sealed expansion joints. OR, form up a "floating" concrete drum riser. Possibly use a KIP or similar product to decouple riser from floor slab.


Well, thats all I have time for at the moment. There are tons more issues/options to address so read Rods book. As one acoustics guru puts it..."good studio building is 90% design/planning...10% construction." I used to argue that statement. Accepting enlightenment isn't easy sometimes. Till you fail. Unfortunately, hindsight in studio building isn't cheap. Nor possible sometimes.
Nice to see you back FitZ :D
 
Nice to see you back FitZ
Hey, thanks buddy. Although I'm sure theres some people that would disagree with ya.:p I wasn't going to come back here...but, old habits die hard.:D Besides, kinda missed the old hangout. ;)
But I promise to keep it cool from now on.

fitZ
 
Hey, thanks buddy. Although I'm sure theres some people that would disagree with ya.:p I wasn't going to come back here...but, old habits die hard.:D Besides, kinda missed the old hangout. ;)
But I promise to keep it cool from now on.

fitZ
Great! I tried to protest your ban through a self-imposed ban, which lasted a good while, but I cracked one night when I was drunk and it went downhill from there. :drunk:

That's good man. Can't go offending every newbie. :p
 
For those of you that don't know Rick, he's very knowledgeable on this topic and many others. Read his post several times before you ask him to clarify.

In this particular instance, even if you're not looking for serious isolation, be sure to read Rod's book BEFORE THE BUILD to avoid structural transmission of LF. You don't want a design decision to result in rock being piped throughout the house by your HVAC or plumbing. Also look into things like power (amount of and quality of), lighting, and built-in cabling BEFORE the build so that you don't have regrets later when you think of that great idea - after it's too late to implement it.

If it's huge, as you say, plan on buying a lot of traps. My room is 16x25x12, and I have 58 traps. That's more than most people would use, and I have 22 of them forming a cloud over the whole room. But this room sounds pretty good. If your room is really big, you may even benefit from some diffusion at the back. Anyway, treatment can be later.

You can hear samples (from our second album) at the link in my sig. If you're interested, listen in particular to the cymbals on the old record (free download at our site) and the cymbals on the new record.

The first record was recorded in a 9x14 room with foam and homemade traps from compressed fluffy fiberglass. Mostly the same mics, pres, and converters.
 
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