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Thread: Muddy and Fizzy Guitar Recordings

  1. #71
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    You close mic with a HPF and roll out the lows that are characteristic in the proximity effect of the mic and not really a reproduction of real information in those frequencies.
    Chord with this, Teddy......

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    Quote Originally Posted by cavedog101 View Post
    You close mic with a HPF and roll out the lows that are characteristic in the proximity effect of the mic and not really a reproduction of real information in those frequencies.
    Thank you. That makes sense. I noticed that the lows are boosted considerably when close-miking, creating the illusion of better tone due to the boost. Considering how much cleanup via post-EQ the close-miked tracks require, I think it might be best to avoid the whole ordeal by just pulling the mic back. It seems the better route for me, knowing what I know so far.

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    Better to roll off the bass on the guitar amp, I am amazed how many guitar players boost the bass tones on the guitar amp thinking it makes it fat sounding when in fact it adds woof.

    Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witzendoz View Post
    Better to roll off the bass on the guitar amp, I am amazed how many guitar players boost the bass tones on the guitar amp thinking it makes it fat sounding when in fact it adds woof.

    Alan.
    See my other post about amps Alan. I mention Merlin Blencowe, he makes much of keeping coupling capacitor values lower than usually found. Most amps he says have an unecessarily extended bass response. Yes, even valve BASS pre amps!

    Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witzendoz View Post
    Better to roll off the bass on the guitar amp, I am amazed how many guitar players boost the bass tones on the guitar amp thinking it makes it fat sounding when in fact it adds woof.

    Alan.
    I think you're right. I keep my Bass control around 2 for classic metal tones.

    I also wanted to update this thread on my progress. I was able to solve my problem of fizzy guitars by turning the master volume up. The DSL15C I was using for recording doesn't start delivering the goods until master volume is at least on 8. It sounds still better on 10, but 8 is a good starting point.
    Last edited by Seventh Son; 11-09-2019 at 14:42.

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    Problem Solved

    Just wanted to update this thread and report that the issue I was having has been resolved. The fizzy guitars I complained about were the result of not driving the amp hard enough. However, after I noticed that my DSL15C starts to thicken, once volume is on 8, the rest was easy. I was able to dial in fairly standard EQ settings, with all EQ around noon, and place the mic in a standard position (on-axis, 1 inch off the grille, pointed at the dust cap edge), and got a great close-miked tone. The resulting sound was a bit more modern than what I was going for, but it lease it was a modern tone done right. What I initially perceived a fizzy, bassy tone, was remedied with the employment of more volume, probably due to the power tubes engaging at that point, but the speaker may also have benefited from more volume. With more volume, the woofiness was gone and replaced with a tighter, warmer, and thicker tone. So, basically, the lesson is: Apparently, some, if not all, Marshalls really need a lot of volume to develop their tone, at least as far as close-miked recording is concerned.

  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh Son View Post
    I have seen countless guys shove the SM57 right on the grille of a 4x12'" and get great tones, yet whenever I do it with even with a 1x12", I get a lot of proximity effect and boominess. What do you guys make of this?
    I know this post is old, but yeah I fucking hate it. I never understood the appeal of shoving a 57 right up next to the cone only to put a hpf on in post. Just back the mic up a bit. I remember reading that Andy Sneap would remove the grill cover be it cloth or metal mesh just so he could get his mics closer.

    Dude gets great guitar tones so I can't argue with it but it honestly doesn't work for me at all. I end up with the mic about 2-3" from the grill on my cab which ends up being roughly 5 or so inches from the speaker minimum.

    Also, I'm glad you figured things out (from your post above).
    My home studio ---> www.nerolstudio.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitargodgt View Post
    I know this post is old, but yeah I fucking hate it. I never understood the appeal of shoving a 57 right up next to the cone only to put a hpf on in post. Just back the mic up a bit. I remember reading that Andy Sneap would remove the grill cover be it cloth or metal mesh just so he could get his mics closer.

    Dude gets great guitar tones so I can't argue with it but it honestly doesn't work for me at all. I end up with the mic about 2-3" from the grill on my cab which ends up being roughly 5 or so inches from the speaker minimum.

    Also, I'm glad you figured things out (from your post above).
    I have to correct myself and some of the things I posted above. Through further experimentation, I have learned the the proximity effect I have complained about was probably the combined result of my own perception, monitoring situation, and psychoacoustics.

    Experimenting with different cab placements, I have found that to get a nice, strong midrange, the cab needs to be on the ground (I'm using a 1x12'). For folks using 4x12's, that means they should mic up one of the bottom two speakers. In theory, it makes sense to raise the amp to avoid reflections and comb filtering, but in practice, raising the amp always deprives the tone of certain important lower mids and what I would describe as weight. My resulting mic placement was pretty standard: on-axis, on the grille, right over the dust cap edge.
    But, to get back to the main point, if anyone is reading this because their distorted guitars sound fizzy, the #1 remedy is to record real loud, loud enough to get the power amp stage engaged. For reference, on my DSL15C, that happens when volume is on 8 or above.

    Regarding your comment about Andy Sneap: I have heard people complaining about his sound, but after recently purchasing the latest Saxon album that Andy produced and analyzing it thoroughly, I can say that the criticism is more hairsplitting than anything worth debating. I actually liked the low end in his production. It's very classy. It's not what my ears are drawn toward. Personally, I don't like too dark and resonant heavy guitars. I'd rather hear a nice cutting guitar tone, something along the lines of Maiden's first album or Black Sabbath's "Iron Man" but a bit more refined, but I do have to say that I liked Andy's production style. It's modern metal. Nothing more, nothing less. However, at the same time, it really isn't that removed from classic metal production from the '80s or '90s. There are really only so many ways one can put a mic on a guitar amp. True, back in the day, guys like Martin Birch and Max Norman used close mics and room mics and combined them onto a single track, whereas Andy prefers the close-miked tone, but the difference between the two amounts to artistic choice, not a groundbreaking change in technology or something.
    Last edited by Seventh Son; 05-22-2020 at 11:31.

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    I usually record fairly loud. I want the speaker cab to vibrate a bit and I want the speakers to be moving some air. I think it sounds better, plus I just stick the cab in a different room.

    I'm more into modern tones where you drive the hell out of the preamp stage vs cooking the power section so I'm always recording with a higher output pickups and some kind of tubescreamer like boost (I don't own a TS9 so for me it's always something else, but the results are similar).
    My home studio ---> www.nerolstudio.com

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