miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I think all that can be gotten from that is that music sales are generally going down. I don't see it as some tredn back toward analog listening formats.
On the digital side....there's so much free music, people are just not buying it as much.
AFA the bump up in vinyl sales...it's probably more to do with vinyl having been near-dead for a long time, so there's a small resurgence, and the fact that if you want to hear anything on vinyl, you actually have to buy it...there's not "free" download or copies available.
All in all....music has become quite devalued, regardless of the medium.
On the digital side....there's so much free music, people are just not buying it as much.
AFA the bump up in vinyl sales...it's probably more to do with vinyl having been near-dead for a long time, so there's a small resurgence, and the fact that if you want to hear anything on vinyl, you actually have to buy it...there's not "free" download or copies available.
All in all....music has become quite devalued, regardless of the medium.
B
Beck
Guest
I agree to an extent, but vinyl sales are up significantly compared to vinyl sales over the last several years... and that's true... you can't steal it so easily as digital. You have to resort to old fashioned shop lifting to do it. Vinyl has been growing since 1999, so its more than a fad at this point and 2013 was a banner year. It's a very simple statistical trend upward. That's especially significant when potential buyers could just go steal a digital version, but they're instead choosing vinyl over mp3 and CD, DVD, etc.
Considering vinyl should be dead based on all the predictions, a steady trend up over years makes this article is some news. (Well not really news to me because I've been watching the increase for years, but newsworthy that it continues to be newsworthy to industry observers.
Considering vinyl should be dead based on all the predictions, a steady trend up over years makes this article is some news. (Well not really news to me because I've been watching the increase for years, but newsworthy that it continues to be newsworthy to industry observers.
lonewhitefly
Active member
Cassettes are also on the up and up.
Something worth noting is that -- in terms of album sales -- CDs still sell outsell all other formats. The media spin always seems to be 'CD is on the way out' but downloads have never caught up and may not at this point. Anytime you see the 'digital outsells CDs', it seems to include single sales AND streaming ... which are very different things in my opinion.
If you read the data, the real breakdown of album sales for 2013 goes like this:
CDs - 57.2%
Downloads - 40.6%
Vinyl - 2%
Cassettes and DVDs - 0.2% (though this data is not entirely correct for cassettes, as most cassette releases are in small, limited quantities by indies and are not likely reported)
Clearly, CDs are still the most viable option for selling an album. That said, genre is also important. Vinyl could easily outsell CDs and digital if that's the primary medium and market for the genre.
Worth noting is that these are figures for people who actually purchase an album. Free downloading probably accounts for the lion's share of 'album acquisitions' !
I personally believe that by and large, people don't like to pay for something that is not tangible. And what lead us to this point is putting the muscle behind trying to get people to pay for downloads, instead of focusing on the physical mediums.
Something worth noting is that -- in terms of album sales -- CDs still sell outsell all other formats. The media spin always seems to be 'CD is on the way out' but downloads have never caught up and may not at this point. Anytime you see the 'digital outsells CDs', it seems to include single sales AND streaming ... which are very different things in my opinion.
If you read the data, the real breakdown of album sales for 2013 goes like this:
CDs - 57.2%
Downloads - 40.6%
Vinyl - 2%
Cassettes and DVDs - 0.2% (though this data is not entirely correct for cassettes, as most cassette releases are in small, limited quantities by indies and are not likely reported)
Clearly, CDs are still the most viable option for selling an album. That said, genre is also important. Vinyl could easily outsell CDs and digital if that's the primary medium and market for the genre.
Worth noting is that these are figures for people who actually purchase an album. Free downloading probably accounts for the lion's share of 'album acquisitions' !
I personally believe that by and large, people don't like to pay for something that is not tangible. And what lead us to this point is putting the muscle behind trying to get people to pay for downloads, instead of focusing on the physical mediums.
WarmJetGuitar
New member
I think getting listeners to paying for downloads won't be successfull without promoting the advantages the sonic advantages of vinyl and 96 KHZ/24 bit digital. And the latter takes bigger harddrives, faster internet connections and easier-to-use WAV/FLAC to MP3 conversion to hit it off.
If the industry want to be successfull again they should start signing proper bands like they did in the late 60's and record them in proper studios. These days most pro studios is mainly used by crappy pop music and has-beens despite of tons of great music being released as we speak. Of course this statement reflects my own taste in music and might not be the case for all genres. But for stuff like psychedelic rock or shoegaze most guys is recording on semi-pro equipment and could benefit from using all the great stuff a pro studio has to offer.
Basically I think music should be free for the users and the state should be better at supporting artists in terms of support for releases and public access high quality studios.
I think that there's many benefits of free downloading of music as people would produce more boring music without the option of tracking down unknown music from any country and any age.
Sorry if my post is a bit messy but I havn't slept more than an hour the entire night.
If the industry want to be successfull again they should start signing proper bands like they did in the late 60's and record them in proper studios. These days most pro studios is mainly used by crappy pop music and has-beens despite of tons of great music being released as we speak. Of course this statement reflects my own taste in music and might not be the case for all genres. But for stuff like psychedelic rock or shoegaze most guys is recording on semi-pro equipment and could benefit from using all the great stuff a pro studio has to offer.
Basically I think music should be free for the users and the state should be better at supporting artists in terms of support for releases and public access high quality studios.
I think that there's many benefits of free downloading of music as people would produce more boring music without the option of tracking down unknown music from any country and any age.
Sorry if my post is a bit messy but I havn't slept more than an hour the entire night.
Just a thought but....
Up until a few years ago it was quite hard and very expensive to buy the means to PLAY vinyl. Now we have shedload of turntables on the market using crap cartridges and even crappier A/D converts feeding a usb port. These people THINK they are listening to analogue disc!
Dave.
Up until a few years ago it was quite hard and very expensive to buy the means to PLAY vinyl. Now we have shedload of turntables on the market using crap cartridges and even crappier A/D converts feeding a usb port. These people THINK they are listening to analogue disc!
Dave.
Hammerstone
Out of style
Funny, people still think vinyl automatically equals pure analog sound...
I would have to agree, if download sales are down, it's because more people are not paying for it, and I don't see that getting better. Ever since radio came out we've seen that the majority of people will listen to free music over paying for it, given the chance. It's frightening to see how this has bled into just about every other aspect of life - there isn't much out there that people that value anything enough to pay for it. Everyone wants shit to be free for them and have someone else pay for it.
I would have to agree, if download sales are down, it's because more people are not paying for it, and I don't see that getting better. Ever since radio came out we've seen that the majority of people will listen to free music over paying for it, given the chance. It's frightening to see how this has bled into just about every other aspect of life - there isn't much out there that people that value anything enough to pay for it. Everyone wants shit to be free for them and have someone else pay for it.
Couldn't agree more, though with ears trained to mp3s on earbuds, not sure anyone cares to hear the difference? My entry level price range these days for decent vinyl playback is around $1k for TT and cartridge. Forget A/D conversion at that price point as well. The $350 - $500 usb 'tables are pretty crappy for just the reasons mentioned.
One of the issues for me as one still purchasing music, is the ability to find newer music in genres I like on vinyl or 24/96 downloads. Sometimes CD is the only way I can acquire the music I'm seeking. And I will add that I am sorely disappointed in the pressing quality the new Dire Straits studio box set (6 album) reissue from Mercury. At $30 per slab of vinyl I don't expect to get groove hash the equal of old shellac 78s. With this kind of pressing quality, 24/96 and 24/192 donwloads become ever more interesting to me.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I wouldn't complain about going back to the earlier days......but the music today isn't the real problem, it's all about convenience, and that people want to just get stuff for free.
There's no going back.....and vinyl will have no impact on setting the clock back. It's just another niche these days, just like us guys who track to tape, and people who still sit-n-listen to Hi-Q audio through a Hi-Q stereo system.
There is a a lot of good music being made today, but what's really "popular" is the Rap, R&B, and the now very highly polished Pop and Country Pop stuff , with the occasional "retro" bands getting some praise and general public attention.
It's just how things have evolved, and digital publishing and distribution has fueled a lot of it and accommodated it, to the point where it's all becoming a musical blur and slowly moving toward "background noise" status as we go about our daily routines.
There is little excitement about buying the newly released vinyl album and taking it home to sit in front of the stereo and listen to the whole thing from side to side, like there use to be back in the day. That's not coming back, no matter how much vinyl sales have jumped in the past year....sorry to say.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
all that is basically true but vinyl sales have grown continuously for the last decade and there are more turntable/cartridge manufacturers now than they were in vinyl's heyday.I think all that can be gotten from that is that music sales are generally going down. I don't see it as some tredn back toward analog listening formats.
On the digital side....there's so much free music, people are just not buying it as much.
AFA the bump up in vinyl sales...it's probably more to do with vinyl having been near-dead for a long time, so there's a small resurgence, and the fact that if you want to hear anything on vinyl, you actually have to buy it...there's not "free" download or copies available.
All in all....music has become quite devalued, regardless of the medium.
While it is MUCH smaller than during the big music days the fact is that it has been a fairly solid performer all along and it was never as dead as some would say.
Even 5-10 years ago a lot of people thought they had stopped making all that stuff completely and that was never the case. Even at it's lowest something like 65% of all music released was available on vinyl.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Well...."dead" is a relative term AFA music sales are concerned. Vinyl sales were at one point on life-support. Now they're up out of their death bed, and walking about the hospital on their own power, but that won't turn music sales around in any significant way.
I have a really nice turntable (always had one), new, spare cartridges, and a few hundred albums.....and I never spin up any of them nor have a desire to buy new vinyl albums any more, even though I loved doing that back in the day.
I have a really nice turntable (always had one), new, spare cartridges, and a few hundred albums.....and I never spin up any of them nor have a desire to buy new vinyl albums any more, even though I loved doing that back in the day.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
That's simply not true at all.
I have never gotten out of vinyl and have always bought all my music on vinyl entirely and have never had the slightest problem getting any music I wanted on vinyl although it usually costs more than CDs. As for equipment to play it on ...... there have continued to be nice 'tables easily found and bought all the time. I know 'cause I've bought around 5 of them to go with my 6000 albums over the last 15 years.
And while it's true that there are now cheapo plasticky tables with crap phono-pres built in all over the place, there are also LOTS of quite good tables for maybe 300-400 dollars and a lot of nice carts starting around 40 bucks. Grados have been available the entire time ..... the Shure M95 has been available the entire time. If I cared to look it up I could come up with a list of dozens of good carts available the entire time and 'tables too.
It's true that you had to order this stuff as the big box retailers didn't carry it but there has been no shortage of it's availability.
And even something like a Pro-Ject Debut with a Grado is a better 'table than the vast majority of stuff we had back in the 70's. The research and development of vinyl playback continued without pause through the entire period of slowest vinyl sales and the stuff out there now (not counting the mass-market built-in USB dreck) is the best that has ever been.
It's actually a sort of golden time for us vinyl enthusiasts with more choices and better ones than ever.
B
Beck
Guest
I don't know about the UK, but in the states good turntables have always been available, largely due to the timing of the rise of rap/hip-hop keeping turntables in production long after they were a primary end-user listening device. The pre-owned market has always been very healthy as well.
But yes, we will always have the issue of crappy sound systems (but we always did). People have been PC-centric for too long. Everything has revolved around personal computers, and went down hill from there with even smaller crappier sound in laptops, iPad, etc. The majority of listeners have never heard a pure analog system, or they're old enough to have forgotten what it sounded like even if they did. And few are using a decent system of any kind, analog or digital. USB Cassette is a big waste of money as well. The specs on those things are terrible.
That being said, the analog crowd tends to be more sophisticated and as choosy about the sound system as they are about the medium.
It would be interesting to examine the sales statistics for turntables, but very hard to do. eBay, Craigslist and Amazon aren't counted even though they've allowed the pre-owned market to overtake the new-sales market in many areas.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I also can't speak for the UK but some of the contributors to Stereophile, which I've subscribed to for 25 years, can as some of them reside there.
A lot of the good tables that continued to be available were made in the UK and/or Europe like Rega for example. Since they were made there I have to assume they were available there.
Ive only been buying new and newer stuff on vinyl for the past couple of years. Fortunately the genres I like publish on vinyl. I play them quit often. One of my favorite times is when Im otherwise doing work in the studio, like cabling and soldering. Sounds good on the studio equipment and it forces me to get up from under the console every 22 minutes or so to flip sides, LOL.
I still use my vintage Audio Linear TD 4004 (think clockwork orange). Its a cool analog visual to go along with the rest of the experience. Friends seem to really did going in there and listening to vinyl for a while. Some have even bought some and have never heard them until they brought them over for a listen.
I still use my vintage Audio Linear TD 4004 (think clockwork orange). Its a cool analog visual to go along with the rest of the experience. Friends seem to really did going in there and listening to vinyl for a while. Some have even bought some and have never heard them until they brought them over for a listen.
Hammerstone
Out of style
Yeah I haven't come across anything amazing for a while, but between my dad's house and where I am now, I have three turntables, a Marantz 6110, a Yamaha YP-D8 and a Garrard LAB 80, plus some Kenwood amps and receivers, a Marantz receiver, a pair of Polk bookshelf speakers and two pairs of KLH speakers from the '90's. Everything I had was bought either at a thrift store or a garage sale, and cost me next to nothing. The deals are out there waiting to be discovered by those who care enough to look. The lazy know-nothings who buy an Ion off amazon.com deserve what they get.
MagnumPI
New member
Good thread.
On tour I sell WAY more vinyl these days than I did a few years ago. Nobody seems to want CD's now.
Most vinyl comes with a download code inside. It's a nice selling point " You get this big beautiful colored vinyl with art, sleeve etc. AND a download code" (my guess is most people use the code for listening and the vinyl goes up on the shelf), though I have been noticing more and more record players for sale around these days at shops, so maybe people are listening to the disc. I do hope so.
On tour I sell WAY more vinyl these days than I did a few years ago. Nobody seems to want CD's now.
Most vinyl comes with a download code inside. It's a nice selling point " You get this big beautiful colored vinyl with art, sleeve etc. AND a download code" (my guess is most people use the code for listening and the vinyl goes up on the shelf), though I have been noticing more and more record players for sale around these days at shops, so maybe people are listening to the disc. I do hope so.
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
I have a problem where I buy the album and then don't want to wear it out by actually playing it. In several cases I have bought multiple copies so that there's one which is kept mint and a playing copy.
I am very seriously considering issuing an LP of last year's album, but it might be slightly too long to work properly.
I am very seriously considering issuing an LP of last year's album, but it might be slightly too long to work properly.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
if you have good playback gear and it's properly set-up and you clean your records, playing them doesn't really wear them out ...... I have records I've played a hundred times that sound fine.