the 388: running various tape formulations...

shedshrine

shedshrine

Member
Eagerly awaiting a newly purchased Tascam 388, would like to pose a few questions if I may:

I understand that the Tascam 388 is designed to use the '1800 ft reels (457?) to enable its load function. I'd prefer not to forego that feature, but if other various tape formulations available offer substantial differences in sound/saturation qualities, I'd like to try them out.

Also, will using a thicker tape that disables the load function cause undue wear of the motors? Do any adjustments need to be made?


Thanks!!
 
Any 1800' (1 mil) tape will let the load function work as designed. The TYPE of tape has to do with what the machine is biased for. Others will have better advice than I on this. Try searching this forum for past 388 posts on tape type..

And yes, thicker tape (like 1.5mil/ 1200 ft reels) does strain the motors and will wear then heads faster.
There is absolutely no good reason to use thicker tape. Use the 1 mil stuff

if you did not get a manual with this, GET ONE.
 
Thanks again technoplayer,

1 mil tape forever!

I guess what I'm getting at at this point is what 1 mil 1800 tape gives you the best performance sound and storage wise. Specifically to get maximum saturation pleasure out of this 1/4 inch 8 track. Will search more for experience with bias and tape type.

And yeah, the 388 is to arrive with the original manual. I have managed to find a pdf in the meantime...
 
shedshrine said:
Thanks again technoplayer,

1 mil tape forever!

I guess what I'm getting at at this point is what 1 mil 1800 tape gives you the best performance sound and storage wise. Specifically to get maximum saturation pleasure out of this 1/4 inch 8 track. Will search more for experience with bias and tape type.

And yeah, the 388 is to arrive with the original manual. I have managed to find a pdf in the meantime...
Click to expand...

The 388 was originally setup for Maxell UD 35-90 (a +3 tape) but the tape is discontinued. Arguably, the Maxell, a non back coated tape, which incidentally uses whale oil lubricant, has the best longevity and stores very well. It's a really good tape.

The closest currently made replacement for the Maxell is Quantegy 407 (also a +3 tape):

http://quantegyonline.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=32_76

Don't worry about saturation etc.... The 388 employs dbx1 noise reduction which you should use and stay within 0db for max peaks. Don't pin the meters as this is not neccessary and doesn't help the sound.

One thing though .... You may find that using the 407 over the Maxell, for which the 388 was set for, will be a bit off as far as callibration is concerned (levels, bias etc ...). This may not bother you as it will still sound good.

One thing about the thicker and very hot level tapes, as technoplayer already mentioned, is that these will put undue stress on the transport, wear heads faster and the tape to head contact will be less than ideal.

Also, as far as I know, there is only one 1mil +3 tape being made, Quantegy 407 and it does outspec the Maxell, although both will sound good. If you want to use something else, however, you'd need to do a full electrical alignment which is a real pain with a 2 head deck.

Just stick with new 407 or find some Maxell on eBay, is my advice.

Good luck! :)
 
Thanks for the link and info cjacek

Quote:
"One thing though .... You may find that using the 407 over the Maxell, for which the 388 was set for, will be a bit off as far as callibration is concerned (levels, bias etc ...). This may not bother you as it will still sound good."

How would you describe the sound difference of running 407 with the factory Maxell bias setting, or is it not really appreciable to comment? Brighter?Darker?

And as to levels, would you compensate by going a couple dbs over or under +3 dbs? I'll keep reading up on this stuff..
 
shedshrine said:
Thanks for the link and info cjacek

Quote:
"One thing though .... You may find that using the 407 over the Maxell, for which the 388 was set for, will be a bit off as far as callibration is concerned (levels, bias etc ...). This may not bother you as it will still sound good."

How would you describe the sound difference of running 407 with the factory Maxell bias setting, or is it not really appreciable to comment? Brighter?Darker?

And as to levels, would you compensate by going a couple dbs over or under +3 dbs? I'll keep reading up on this stuff..
Click to expand...

That's a very valid question.

They're both +3 tape but a different formulation. I found running 407 on my 388 was about 2-3db hotter on output whereas the Maxell was almost dead on with no frequency bumps. The 407, on the other hand, was a bit fuller overall, especially on the lower end. It had a slightly different color than the Maxell with level being about 2-3db hotter on output. Personally I'd not mess with it and just use one of the 2 tapes. The slight differences are not worth messing about, especially that the callibration (for the 388) is very much unlike other 3 head decks.
 
Do the hotter output levels have any effect on the dbx?

I notice them whenever I record on my 388 (so I usually try to keep levels to between -7 to -3), but I've never really been sure if they were harmful or not.
 
Mark7 said:
Do the hotter output levels have any effect on the dbx?
I notice them whenever I record on my 388 (so I usually try to keep levels to between -7 to -3), but I've never really been sure if they were harmful or not.
Click to expand...

It's supposed to cause decoding errors if it goes too high - I've never heard anything bad on my TSR-8 though, and one of my first songs had the levels pushed to distortion on the vocal track.
 
Yeah, that's what I heard too.

Does it help if you use +3 instead of +6? Only, I've tended to go for 457 as a rule.
 
Mark,

I'm not sure about the dbx thing but the 388 is factory calibrated for +3 and if it wasn't readjusted and you're using a +6 tape (Quantegy 457) it'll definitely be off and I suspect more than 3db ... more like around 5 or 6db. The bias will be off too.... The original Maxell ud 35 (what the 388 was set for), despite having +3 too, was a different formulation and that too will affect the output.

Personally I'd use 407 as max for the 388 or a maxell ud 35-90, even if I could have it readjusted for a hotter tape.
 
Not to strike down everything's that been said, but the 388 is a pretty versatile machine. I was using SM 900 tape for awhile, which is 1.5 mil thick and is +9, but it sounded fine. I wouldn't recommend doing that since I've learned about using thick tape that's the wrong bias, but I just wanted to say that it still sounded pretty good. My band did it's whole second album on that kind of tape on the 388.

-MD
 
themaddog said:
Not to strike down everything's that been said, but the 388 is a pretty versatile machine. I was using SM 900 tape for awhile, which is 1.5 mil thick and is +9, but it sounded fine. I wouldn't recommend doing that since I've learned about using thick tape that's the wrong bias, but I just wanted to say that it still sounded pretty good. My band did it's whole second album on that kind of tape on the 388.

-MD
Click to expand...

No doubt the 388 would sound good on a very hot tape and especially so if it was callibrated correctly for it but imho, it's not worth it for the longer term. The +6 and +9 tapes become very heavy, as more oxide is added not to mention the overall thickness and this not only wears down the heads faster but strains the rather small motors vs some of the bigger machines.

I'd not use anything above 456 / 457. The reason I include 456, despite it being a 1.5mil tape, is that Ampex / Quantegy tapes usually are less stiff than the 1mil jap tapes and this wouldn't negatively affect tape wrap over the heads. Anything above that is a bad idea, 'cause as you go from 456 to 499 to GP-9, the tape becomes very stiff (and heavy) and, even if you could, by some miracle, bias the 388 for those, you'll murder the recorder. :eek: ;)
 
Anything coming down the pipe of miracles of science resembling a 1 mil 1800" hotter (+6 +9) tape? :)

..ah, 457 is 1 mil and +6. thanks
 
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shedshrine said:
Anything coming down the pipe of miracles of science resembling a 1 mil 1800" hotter (+6 +9) tape? :)

..ah, 457 is 1 mil and +6. thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, 457 but the 388 would need to be callibrated for it and it is a royal pain in the ass, just like any deck without a 3rd head. If you want my honest opinion, just buy some virgin Quantegy 407 stock and be done with it. It's a +3 tape but it doesn't matter 'cause you'll use dbx anyway. What's more is that 407 outspecs the original maxell tape that the 388 was setup for. ;)
 
and finally, what's the best method of buying tape. I'd like having a box to store each tape in, but the case of 40 versions seem to be without.(man that's a lot a tape!) Can you bulk buy the boxes separately? And of course, who has the best price/service combo online? experiences? Thankyaverrymuch
 
shedshrine said:
and finally, what's the best method of buying tape. I'd like having a box to store each tape in, but the case of 40 versions seem to be without.(man that's a lot a tape!) Can you bulk buy the boxes separately? And of course, who has the best price/service combo online? experiences? Thankyaverrymuch
Click to expand...

I haven't shopped in any of the online stores, yet, but as 7" tape is so inexpensive and new batches are made, I'd personally order from Quantegy directly:

http://quantegyonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32_76&products_id=39

I think they all come in a cardboard box (for each tape) and if you buy more, they might come in a cardboard case, but I'm unsure about that. Best thing is to call the Quantegy store and ask. ;)
 
cjacek said:
Best thing is to call the Quantegy store and ask. ;)
Click to expand...
You mean actually talk to a person? Out loud? I'll have to get my strength up, my vocal chords have shriveled from asking too many online questions ! :D

(The pinchroller/capstan belt order was a good warmup though.)

Thanks again.
 
cjacek said:
The 388 was originally setup for Maxell UD 35-90 (a +3 tape) but the tape is discontinued. Arguably, the Maxell, a non back coated tape, which incidentally uses whale oil lubricant, has the best longevity and stores very well. It's a really good tape.

The closest currently made replacement for the Maxell is Quantegy 407 (also a +3 tape):

http://quantegyonline.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=32_76

Don't worry about saturation etc.... The 388 employs dbx1 noise reduction which you should use and stay within 0db for max peaks. Don't pin the meters as this is not neccessary and doesn't help the sound.

One thing though .... You may find that using the 407 over the Maxell, for which the 388 was set for, will be a bit off as far as callibration is concerned (levels, bias etc ...). This may not bother you as it will still sound good.

One thing about the thicker and very hot level tapes, as technoplayer already mentioned, is that these will put undue stress on the transport, wear heads faster and the tape to head contact will be less than ideal.

Also, as far as I know, there is only one 1mil +3 tape being made, Quantegy 407 and it does outspec the Maxell, although both will sound good. If you want to use something else, however, you'd need to do a full electrical alignment which is a real pain with a 2 head deck.

Just stick with new 407 or find some Maxell on eBay, is my advice.

Good luck! :)
Click to expand...

All good advice. I will only add 1 thing:
On home type machines, thicker tape will wear heads faster IF the tape tension is left alone. IF tape tension CAN be set ( I know it can on all pro machines and my Fostex E16s) THEN the heads will not wear any faster than 1 mil tape.

Motors shounld'nt care if designed right. All pro decks (as well as the Fostex E16) are OK. I am assuming that the better TASCAMS have HD motors as well.
 
jpmorris said:
It's supposed to cause decoding errors if it goes too high - I've never heard anything bad on my TSR-8 though, and one of my first songs had the levels pushed to distortion on the vocal track.
Click to expand...


BTW: The dbx IS the reason that you can't get tape saturation on any of these decks. The myth dies...................
 
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