Would anyone like to paint my house?

[Robert D]

*sigh* Why is the disparity between asking someone if they'd like to join in a hobby activity and asking someone to do a job for them so difficult to understand?

Yes this audio stuff is nothing more than a hobby for some folks. And yes I think that's fantastic.

But when somebody asks somone with more than just hobbyist chops to perform a service for them and not just to lend them a fun hand, that is *exactly* like asking a painter to paint their house for them.

You guys should all pretty well know that chess and I are like oil and water most of the time. But I'm with him on this one. (Don't let it go to your head, chess ).

G.

Yes, I took issue with the op wording in a different post, and you and Chess being professionals made you both pre-disposed to offense from the post. It could very well be that there was mal-intent involved, that the guy was trying to get free mastering on a CD he intended to make money on, or it could be that he's just a guy who thought maybe someone might like a project to further develop their chops on. But there's an issue of scale here in this thread. When you say it is exactly like asking a painter to paint a house for them, you're speaking in concept, not in reality, and that's not "exactly". To paraphrase you, why is the disparity between asking if anyone wants a project to practice their chops on and asking someone to do days of hard work that virtually no one would find enjoyable beyond a couple of hours so hard to understand. Grapes to watermelons. The real painting corrolary would be to look for an art student to use you in a sitting while he paints your portrait; you'll keep the painting which may or may not be worth it in the end, and he gets to keep a print for his portfolio and gets the practice. In fact, art students have been known to have to pay someone to sit.
Years ago my band went and got some free recording done at a recording school because.......... get it?

 

[bryank]

so does this mean i went to 'home depot' and got supplies...for nothing!?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

But there's an issue of scale here in this thread. When you say it is exactly like asking a painter to paint a house for them, you're speaking in concept, not in reality, and that's not "exactly".

Just how easy do you think it is to do a good mixing or mastering job? There's another thread current around here somehwere where a guy was asking if a studio was as good as it looked. The studio charged $45/hr for the studio with experienced engineer, which frankly, is a bargain. At $45/hr they were especting ther album to cost about $1000, which would be about 20 billable hours. Not at all an unreasonable estimate, all else being equal. That would be 20 hours for an album maybe an hour long (give or take.)

This guy had, he said, about 20 minutes of materal to be mastered. At the same ratio, that would be about 6 1/2 hours worth of work. Add to that the fact that this was the guy's first mix, meaning a mastering job that would be just that much more difficul because the mix won't exactly be A-list mix quality, and one could easily be talking 8 hours of mastering to get the job done properly.

We're not talking about some kid sitting around in their underoos hitting on their beer bong and staring at their lava lamp while "mastering' the music with a cracked copy of Waves and taking 10 minutes to throw the three songs at a limiter and crushing the bejesus out of it, we're talking about a mastering job, and one to be done properly (like he specifically wanted) that could easily take all day of applying some real learned technique.

OK, so maybe it's not quite painting a house time-wise in that most houses will take one person more than a day to paint. I'll give you that detail. But it certainly is asking someone to stain and urethane their deck for them, or seal their driveway for them, or roof their garage for them, or detail their car for them. And in some ways it's a lot more because it's asking for a job that requires a skillset on a whole other level than those tasks. Anybody on this board can seal coat a driveway, but only a select few (myself excluded from those few) can do a good mastering job on a rookie mix.

So, OK, while it may not be exactly "like" asking a painter to paint the house, it's just as severe of a request.

It's all just a symptom of Napster Disease. Everybody thinks that just because something exists or occurs in the digital realm that they're entitled to it for free or for next to free. Just because someone can FTP instead of UPS something does not decrease it's value or the amount of work it represents.

G.

 

[littledog]

Glen, I understand your sentiments, but I can't agree with your math. If your Mastering Engineer is taking that long, I really gotta wonder just who is doing your mastering.

Typically, my album length (one hour, give or take) projects take 5-7 hours to master, and these figures are from places that are considered the top tier in the New England area. (Well, the top tier is Gateway/Bob Ludwig, but let's just say the tier below that one.)

If your average experience is 19.5 hours (6.5 hours x 3) for a CD length project, you need to start looking around for someone with better skills.

I think you are confusing recording/mixing time with Mastering. On typical projects, mastering doesn't take nearly as long.

 

[Dogman]

Aren't you guys taking the mockery a little too far?

Yes. Seriousness only people.....no kidding around. Someone might lose an eye.


I also see Krylon is on sale. How many cans to paint a house?

 

[Mixxit12]

We're not talking about some kid sitting around in their underoos hitting on their beer bong and staring at their lava lamp while "mastering' the music with a cracked copy of Waves and taking 10 minutes to throw the three songs at a limiter and crushing the bejesus out of it, we're talking about a mastering job,

I have nothing to add other than, that was funny!

 

[Robert D]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

We're not talking about some kid sitting around in their underoos hitting on their beer bong and staring at their lava lamp while "mastering' the music with a cracked copy of Waves and taking 10 minutes to throw the three songs at a limiter and crushing the bejesus out of it, we're talking about a mastering job,

I have nothing to add other than, that was funny!

The funny thing is, that's really what we are talking about, because a pro isn't gonna do it. Ya gets what ya pay for.

Glen, we don't disagree that it's un-reasonable for anyone to expect a pro to do this for free. We just disagree on whether he asked for a pro to do it. The premise you guys are operating under is that he asked for it to be done by someone who knows what theyr'e doing, and that implies a pro. I get that, but I think most people who live in the real world know that unless you've got cancer and it's your dying wish, no professional is going to do free work. So, a reasonable interpretation of the op would be that he was asking for an accomplished amature who desires to further their experience with some new material.
Anyway, let's be done with this, I think we've given this guy more of our collective time now debating his request than we would have done to just fullfill it.

BTW, I'm putting my house up for sale, and just bought........... you guessed it - paint. I won't ask.