RideTheCrash
Member
Hmm, and is the wiring going to be any different than what was suggested if that is the case?
G
Gilliland
New member
The reason why you are getting so many different answers is because there is no "correct" way to do what you are attempting. Here's a Rane Note that covers these connections:
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
According to the note, the right way to make this connection is via an isolating transformer. If that can't be achieved, the next best way is #17 in that document, which in your case isn't possible because your snake doesn't use two-wire shielded cable. The best you can hope to do is to connect pin 2 to the center connector, and then connect the shield to either pin 3, pin 1, or both. You may have to try it to see which works best with your particular equipment (with hum being the principal obstacle to overcome).
Your shielded one-wire cable should never be used in this way, at least according to Rane. Interestingly, Rane seems to feel that it is OK to use a single center conductor when the source (output) is balanced, but not when the target (input) is balanced. And in those cases, the question of how to connect the shield is dependent on the topology of the source circuit. But that's not your scenario anyway.
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
According to the note, the right way to make this connection is via an isolating transformer. If that can't be achieved, the next best way is #17 in that document, which in your case isn't possible because your snake doesn't use two-wire shielded cable. The best you can hope to do is to connect pin 2 to the center connector, and then connect the shield to either pin 3, pin 1, or both. You may have to try it to see which works best with your particular equipment (with hum being the principal obstacle to overcome).
Your shielded one-wire cable should never be used in this way, at least according to Rane. Interestingly, Rane seems to feel that it is OK to use a single center conductor when the source (output) is balanced, but not when the target (input) is balanced. And in those cases, the question of how to connect the shield is dependent on the topology of the source circuit. But that's not your scenario anyway.
RideTheCrash
Member
Okay, since I'm relatively stupid when it comes to understanding most of that, I'm thinking again...
Not sure what you meant by #17, wouldn't it be #13, because I'm going from a 1/4" TS to a male RCA (as of now), but it's the RCA I want to change to XLR.
If what you just posted is the case, I don't want to take too many chances. Is it even possible to solder the RCA jack back into the casing? I think I might try to track down an RCA>XLR adapter if I can solder it back on then...
Not sure what you meant by #17, wouldn't it be #13, because I'm going from a 1/4" TS to a male RCA (as of now), but it's the RCA I want to change to XLR.
If what you just posted is the case, I don't want to take too many chances. Is it even possible to solder the RCA jack back into the casing? I think I might try to track down an RCA>XLR adapter if I can solder it back on then...
G
Gilliland
New member
You're probably right. I didn't look that carefully at your configuration. Since it was an RCA on one end, I assumed that it was an RCA on the other. Still, it doesn't really make any difference - the two are exactly the same except for the connector at the unbalanced source end. For our purposes, there is no difference whatsoever between an RCA plug and a quarter-inch Tip-Sleeve connector.RideTheCrash said:
I have no idea whether or not you can put the RCA plug back together, but it should be easy enough to replace it completely if you need to.
Just keep in mind that if you "track down an RCA>XLR adapter", it will have all the same issues - unless it includes a transformer to balance the signal. Nonetheless, we've all done these kinds of connections from time to time - you'll probably be able to make it work.
RideTheCrash
Member
Now, since my cable appears to not be two wires, there will still be a wire with a shield wire to solder onto the pins of the XLR? So there is two wires to be used. I'm just confused, because it's one wire, but then how to connect to pin 2 and then to either 1 or 3?
But anyway, shouldn't an RCA to XLR adapter have an isolation transformer in it for it work? I'm not even sure what one is. I look at it this way:
What I did before, which was annoying, was I had the RCA male connected to an adapter which went to a 1/4" male, which went into an adapter which went to a female XLR, thus allowing me to connect the XLR male on the soundcard. This worked, but the connectors were bulky and I think were part of the reason the one RCA busted off (got crushed).
But anyway, shouldn't an RCA to XLR adapter have an isolation transformer in it for it work? I'm not even sure what one is. I look at it this way:
What I did before, which was annoying, was I had the RCA male connected to an adapter which went to a 1/4" male, which went into an adapter which went to a female XLR, thus allowing me to connect the XLR male on the soundcard. This worked, but the connectors were bulky and I think were part of the reason the one RCA busted off (got crushed).
RideTheCrash
Member
Okay I was on a website and I read:
"So in an RCA cable, the center pin type thingy (the tip) is called hot. That's where the audio signal comes from. Since it's AC it needs to return. So the outer part, called the sleeve, is used to let it return. Yes it returns along the shield. Many of you may recall people calling this part of the wire the "ground""
It mentioned the braiding around the wire, but says it's only one wire. I'm not sure what he means by it goes down the sleeve. I know where the sleeve is, but is there another wire? Do I take scrap wire and solder one end to a pin and the other to the sleeve?
"So in an RCA cable, the center pin type thingy (the tip) is called hot. That's where the audio signal comes from. Since it's AC it needs to return. So the outer part, called the sleeve, is used to let it return. Yes it returns along the shield. Many of you may recall people calling this part of the wire the "ground""
It mentioned the braiding around the wire, but says it's only one wire. I'm not sure what he means by it goes down the sleeve. I know where the sleeve is, but is there another wire? Do I take scrap wire and solder one end to a pin and the other to the sleeve?
G
Gilliland
New member
The shield is usually a braided wire that is wrapped around the center wire. You'll connect the center wire to pin 2, and the shield to pin 1, 3, or both.
It does not sound to me like your old configuration used a transformer. If it worked correctly for you, then you may want to use a meter to see which XLR pin it connected to the outer ring of the RCA.
It does not sound to me like your old configuration used a transformer. If it worked correctly for you, then you may want to use a meter to see which XLR pin it connected to the outer ring of the RCA.
RideTheCrash
Member
Hmm. I don't have a meter and I don't know how to use one, but I assume that would give me the best results. I'm not sure exactly what a transformer does, but I wonder because I had this problem where if I set the jumpers to line level for XLRs, going from my board, I could never get the levels to match. Wondering if all those adapters were somehow changing the signal level.
Now provided I connect them how you just posted, and I even know what pin was connected to the outer ring of the RCA, do you think it would work?
I don't want large hum or anything, that's all...and all my connections seem to be unbalanced and crap anyway, so I'm not too concerned about that.
Now provided I connect them how you just posted, and I even know what pin was connected to the outer ring of the RCA, do you think it would work?
I don't want large hum or anything, that's all...and all my connections seem to be unbalanced and crap anyway, so I'm not too concerned about that.
E
easychair
New member
The braid is the shield. You have to strip enough of the jacket back so you can unbraid part of the shield. Twist it up into a wire, and solder it. Make sure there aren't any little pieces sticking out, they can cause shorts.
G
Gilliland
New member
Yes, I think the connection can work. If you are having problems with levels, it may be that you are attempting to connect two pieces of gear that aren't properly matched in terms of level or impedance. Changing the plugs on your snake won't fix a problem like that.
It sounds like you don't have a lot of experience in working with cables like these, and especially with soldering your own wires. You may want to find a friend or serviceperson who can do this for you, or who can teach you how to do it correctly. It's not that hard, but it will be a lot harder if you've never worked with a soldering iron before.
It sounds like you don't have a lot of experience in working with cables like these, and especially with soldering your own wires. You may want to find a friend or serviceperson who can do this for you, or who can teach you how to do it correctly. It's not that hard, but it will be a lot harder if you've never worked with a soldering iron before.
RideTheCrash
Member
My father in law works in a steel company and has been doing electrical work for 30 years or so. He helped me solder the wires back onto some new fader pots I bought for my board back in the summer. That is the only real soldering experience I personally have, doing some of those, but I won't be attempting this at all unless I'm with him.
So how can I get these to be properly matched? Attaching XLR connections is just for an easier connection, not for fixing any sort of level problem. There are jumpers for specifically for setting it to line level (i.e. a mixer) so there has to be some way to get it match...it's just a real pain in the ass, I had to set the jumpers to like a mic level pad and then adjust the input level on the soundcard to match the rest of the channels. I'd rather not have to do that.
So...I think the soldering bit is solved. Now it's a question of the impedance problem...
So how can I get these to be properly matched? Attaching XLR connections is just for an easier connection, not for fixing any sort of level problem. There are jumpers for specifically for setting it to line level (i.e. a mixer) so there has to be some way to get it match...it's just a real pain in the ass, I had to set the jumpers to like a mic level pad and then adjust the input level on the soundcard to match the rest of the channels. I'd rather not have to do that.
So...I think the soldering bit is solved. Now it's a question of the impedance problem...
RideTheCrash
Member
I'm digging up this old thread to say I finally did this.
After finally getting a soldering iron and some wire strippers from a friend, I found a local store who sold me two Neutrik XLRs (male) the other day and soldered the connections. I did the center wire to pin 2 and the shield to pin 1 and it works fine. Of course, I'm sure they don't line up in terms up level to the other channels of my Delta, due to the balanced/unbalanced part, but it doesn't matter. I'm just happy I can finally use inputs 1 and 2.
Thanks for the help guys.
After finally getting a soldering iron and some wire strippers from a friend, I found a local store who sold me two Neutrik XLRs (male) the other day and soldered the connections. I did the center wire to pin 2 and the shield to pin 1 and it works fine. Of course, I'm sure they don't line up in terms up level to the other channels of my Delta, due to the balanced/unbalanced part, but it doesn't matter. I'm just happy I can finally use inputs 1 and 2.
Thanks for the help guys.