glynb said:Your URL doesn't work,
http://www.ybm-music.com/
at least not at the moment 9:33 (European time) 04 April.
obgenius said:The whole point of record labels existing is because they can do things that most bands/artists cannot do by themselves, mainly fund an album's production. They can afford to spend $50,000 on the recording of your album if they think it will make them money. They can help you get a big name engineer, producer and mixer for your recording. You can record in the biggest, baddest, most expensive studio you like, and if its halfway across the country they'll fly you there and put you in a hotel. They have offices full of people who can market, advertise, and promote the hell out of your album once it's recorded. They also have access to major distribution networks that will get your album printed, packaged, and delivered to every Tower and Sam Goody Record store in the country.
Now, it's easy to start your own label, but I guarantee YOUR label will not be able to do all these things unless you have millions of dollars and can hire a bunch of people to work for you. If your only goal is to make original music that you can be proud of and sell to your buddies, then making your own label is fine. If you want your shit in stores and on the radio, you'd better get a record deal.
Nandoram said:All I ever read is how the record company won't listen to my demo, the record company won't sign me, the record company thinks I'm too old, the record company doesn't think I fit the image, the record company doesn't think there's a market for my music, the record company didn't promote me, the record company released my work before it was ready, the record company froze my royalties, the record company is paying the musicians pennies and they're paying themselves dollars, the record company owns the masters and I can't release my own work...
Music is about communication. If you create it, it's your responsibility to get it out there. I think it's great that nowadays musicians can do that without waiting around for a record company to do it for you. I mean, if you don't meet their criteria (which was pre-determined in some damn focus group), then you have lost. Nobody is going to care more about the music than the person that created it. Take your destiny into your own hands and put out your own product. Put it out there... make it available to the world, and you will learn a lot. Life is about gambling. If you find you can't do something, eliminate the barriers (something that, like writing music, takes creativity), and keep pushing forward.
You're not going to make a million bucks, sure... but all the money you make is YOURS and not the record company's.
Start your own record company. Or you can sit around and do nothing because some record company has passed on you.
glynb said:You're missing something here.
Some of those people who complain along the lines indicated want to be megastars with all the trappings that goes with it. They think they could be the next Eminem if it wasn't for the record label being too ignorant to recognise their tallents! They know you aren't going to be a megastar by releasing 2000 copies of your own CD!
For those of us who left such daydreams behind then the independent route is the way to go, cutting out the middlemen, not making money but having the satisfaction of control over the work, the products the output, etc.
But if becoming a 'star' is what people want then they still need a large label behind them.
randyfromde said:Doesn't it depend on what your focus is? If you want to be a businessman, then be a businessman. If you want to be a musician, be a musician. If you want to be a recording engineer, then be a recording engineer.
Time spent doing one is time not spent perfecting the other.
I would like to own a record company, but my strong points are business, music, recording (in that order). So for me, it would make sense to take care of the business aspect, but it would have to be for another artist. Knowing the other two helps understand what goes on in the process, but I'd never think that I could do them all and be successful.
tanlith said:Couldn't disagree with you more... one of the things I believe most musicians and actors and other performing artists seem to forget is this simple truth:
You're in (or are trying to be in) the pulic eye... this means one simple truth: You are doing PR work 24/7 every thing you do is a representation of who you are and what you represent... From the moment you wake up in the morning till the time you go to bed at night you are your own Public Relations Rep... And a PR Rep with no business savvey is doomed to failure.
And don't (anyone) give me the crap about "That's what you hire PR people for."
If that's the case, then I guess George Michael's little public jerk fest was to boost his career opprotunities?
Or Paul Rubin (Pee Wee Herman) did his little stunt to increase his popularity in the public eye...
EVERYTHING you do reflects on you as both a person and a musician (artist; actor; doctor; lawyer; indian chief; whatever!)... The minute you rely on someone else to maintain your Public Image you're doomed... cause no matter how much you pay them they can't fix it if you really screw-up.
Be a business man (person) first - if you have the talent and dedication then the music will follow ... I would bet 20 to 1 odds that if you asked any successful musician out there they'd tell you "You have to take care of business first." Why? Because business doesn't take care of itself.
Point is any successful musician is up to their ears in their OWN business... Why do you think Madona (I hate her - but she's a good example) was so successful in the 80's? SHE took control of her own image and had her hands in EVERY aspect of what went on in the business of her career.
Prince (Hate him too) is another example of amazing success... do you think he let anyone do anything without checking it out with him first?
There's room for both - if there wasn't most of our "heros" (for lack of a better word at this time) wouldn't have existed... they would have been used; abused and tossed aside... some were... and the ones that came back did so because they took control of their own business and MADE it happen.
- Tanlith -
This rant brought to you by: Ex-Lax
Nandoram said:I totally agree. Great post, Tanlith!!!!!
And I would add that if you create it, it's your responsibility to get it out there! You can't rely on anyone else.
Kevin DeSchwazi said:The cream always rises. If you're good, you'll get there.
Zed10R said:In the most polite way possibe: I disagree with you whole heartedly. How good you are has nothing....NOTHING to do with getting a recording contract. You can sound like God himself, but unless the record company fully believes they can make a mint from your record sales, you are going nowhere.
How do they determine if you will make them money?? Easy. First you have to understand the general public is where the money comes from. They don't want to hear anything new, original, groundbreaking, or even good. They want the same thing regurgitated to them in different ways over and over and over. Hell...most don't even care about music at all. Image is key almost everywhere. Occasionally there is an original act that gets out, but in that case I am afraid it is because the public was told that so and so is great, and everyone just believes it because they don't want to be the nerd who doesn't like the next big thing.
I have to admit though, that 99 out of 100 bands/singers I hear just plain suck. The usual reasons are they try REALLY REALLY hard to sound EXACTLY like someone who is famous and have no soul of their own, or they try REALLY REALLY hard to be "original" that they end up dong things that just do not sound good - but it IS original. Hardly anyone puts themselves on the line and expresses what is really inside. So I guess there is some merit to "if you are good they will come", but not a lot. And it won't get you far.
So, friends, I must agree with everyone else here who is saying....GET OFF YOUR LAZY ASS AND DO IT YOUR DAMN SELF!! That's the ONLY way you will ever have a decent shot at "making it", whatever that means to you.
tanlith said:Anyone ever stop to think that maybe the crap music we hear on the radio is because the BEST of the best are too busy waiting for fame to fall from the sky, land in their driveway, walk into their garage and offer them a contract?
I've met some REAL crappy musicians that REALLY spend a lot of time effort and their own money to do everything they can to make it. One girl I knew sucked really bad... she worked as a stripper and spent every spare penny she could gather to put together a shitty demo, and tried to shop it around. Even after she was told outright by EVEYONE who heard her stuff that she was shitty she went and made ANOTHER demo and pretty much spent 2X the amount on it. She also went out and took singing lessons and is better (though she still sucks - seems to sing at the "bottom" of every note, not quite flat, but not right on either) and now she's playing in a band and doing gigs...
Instead of stitting around bitching about the crappy musicians who are on the radio (aperently because they are WILLING to put some genuine WORK into it) why not DO something about it?
- Tanlith -
P.S. - Again - don't tell me to take my own advice - nowhere on this BBS have I ever bitched about my not making it. But I have heard some really impressive stuff in the clinic here and I wonder to myself "Why are these guys not doing something about it?" -- then I look around somemore and see them bitching about not getting anywhere.
Zed10R said:Pretty good points there. You have more faith in people than I do, but I DO see your point.
There does seem to be a relationship between skill/talent and the willingness to work hard. The great musicians I have met seem to have less intrest in really going far. They seem to be more satisfied making music for them selves and enjoying their art. The less talented ones have a very high drive to work and get out there, only to be harrassed and told in no uncertain terms that they suck.
I'm not sure what drives this behavior, but in my negative nature I think the gifted musicians have a sense of confidence and contentment within themselves that the wannabe's just don't have. The wannabe feels like there is something to prove, often has to wrestle with his ego, and seeks validation.
There are benefits to starting out as a wannabe. That way you have the drive to get out there and do the hard work. By the time you develop your skills and hopefully find your talent, you have learned how to do what you need to be in order to get some exposure and maybe even attract some attention to yourself.
The really talented people, in my opinion, are much more likely to have the mindset that they don't need no stinkin' contract. If they get one, great. If not, who cares. They are happy just to make music, even if it is just for them selves.
Is this what you were getting at, Tanlith??
I still think the amount of crap we hear on the radio has much more to do with the fact that the majority of society truly likes it that way. That's why the same old songs are so overplayed on rock stations and...well I don't follow cookie cutter pop music, but I have noticed that it is all written to blend into the background. With very few exceptions, it all very friendly and safe, low key and low energy. Easy to ignore. Just the way the public likes it.