Why even mic your amp

[zildjohn01]

Why do people mic guitar cabs rather than just running from a DI box to their inputs? Does this warm up the sound? Would a simple reverb do the same thing? Is it pretty much accepted to do this rather than record directly? I don't have a bass amp, do people do the same thing when recording bass?

Thanks for your patience

 

[solo.guitar]

Recording bass DI is common, not so much with guitar but people still do it.

Nothing beats mic'ing an amp, period.

You could DI a guitar and then use an amp/cabinet modeller, but those sound artificial... some less artifical than others.

It's a matter of preference I guess, but I think everyone can agree that mic'ing an amp sounds better than recording direct for both bass and guitar. Although I've heard some really good bass sounds that were recorded DI.

 

[Farview]

The amp is as much a part of the guitar sound as the guitar is. The speaker is also a big part of the amps sound. They all work together.

 

[metalhead28]

Why do people mic guitar cabs rather than just running from a DI box to their inputs? Does this warm up the sound? Would a simple reverb do the same thing? Is it pretty much accepted to do this rather than record directly? I don't have a bass amp, do people do the same thing when recording bass?

Thanks for your patience

Well, if you're talking clean guitar it's not quite the same story...but try making that "DI box into your input" sound like a tube half stack.
Once you try that, you'll understand why people don't want to do it.

With clean guitar, it's not as hard to get a good DI sound, but you still can't beat the sound of a mic'd amp.

 

[zildjohn01]

Thanks, I guess I'm willing to try it. My amp is an OK Fender, and my best mic for that purpose is an SM57, so I'll see how it turns out. Should I do the same thing with bass, through my guitar amp, or will that hurt more than it helps?

And also, do room acoustics matter much when close-micing an amp?

 

[OhSh1rt]

Thanks, I guess I'm willing to try it. My amp is an OK Fender, and my best mic for that purpose is an SM57, so I'll see how it turns out. Should I do the same thing with bass, through my guitar amp, or will that hurt more than it helps?

And also, do room acoustics matter much when close-micing an amp?

Try it on bass, I always DI my bass, but I don't have any mic's suitable for it. The room probably does add something, but I assume it doesn't matter too much when you have a single mic close up, with all the volume thats being pushed into it from the amp the reflections shouldn't stand much of a chance to get in your mix.

But they probably do a bit.


I myself didn't care too much about mic'in an amp untill I got a pair of decent mic's that actualy could do it and I heard the diffrence (and saw the light)

-jeffrey

 

[metalhead28]

Thanks, I guess I'm willing to try it. My amp is an OK Fender, and my best mic for that purpose is an SM57, so I'll see how it turns out. Should I do the same thing with bass, through my guitar amp, or will that hurt more than it helps?

And also, do room acoustics matter much when close-micing an amp?

No worries about the SM57, many consider that the perfect guitar mic.

It's VERY common to DI bass. If all you have is a guitar amp, I wouldn't even bother. You may be able to capture some nice presence or something by min'ing your bass thru a guitar amp, but you certainly wouldn't want to get your entire bass sound that way, you'll lose all the low end and power.

Room acoustics don't matter as much with close mic'ing, but they might make a little difference. I think it kind of depends on the volume you track at too. I've always found that a loud cabinet records better in a larger room, but it's not a huge difference. I record mine in a decent sized closet with acoustic treatment on the walls now with no problems and no pesky room sound sneaking in.

 

[Rokket]

I read in Recording magazine an article on recording bass. The guy they were interviewing (don't ask me who it was. It didn't matter at the time to me, as I was only reading for the technique) goes WAAAY overboard when he records bass.

He will use a DI box and mic the amp at the same time. He also puts the bassist in a vocal iso booth and mic the instrument to pick up the string noise.

Mic'ing the strings aside, I've also heard from many on this board and others that I frequent about DI along side mics on the bass amp.

I have yet to try mic'ing up my bass amp because my mics are crap, but I do use the Sansamp Bass Driver DI on my bass.

I also second (or third or fourth) the notion that DI guitars don't sit well in a mix, and no matter how good a cab simulator is, it still sounds artificial.

 

[Lennu]

He will use a DI box and mic the amp at the same time. He also puts the bassist in a vocal iso booth and mic the instrument to pick up the string noise.

That works also when recording acoustic guitars and clean background guitars. The string sound brings nice sizzle into sound.

And yes, micing guitarcabs is quite an artwork. There's lots of articles about it in the net.

 

[rayc]

Think about the development of the electric guitar & bass. Guitar signal collected by quasi microphone this info sent to an amplifier which alters the tone & volume then that signal is sent to a big paper thing that flicks back and forwrd in an effort to simulate the way air moves around the strings but with extra grrr which is collected by a real microphone which converts that moving air into a signal that can be stored on tape, harddrive, CD etc as something approaching what was happening in your ears.
Then think - can I get that by skipping most of that process?
Is it easy? NO WAY.
Is it worth it? Hell yes.

 

[zildjohn01]

well, i took the plunge... plugged in my guitar and my sm57. my amp was buried under some stuff (including a record player), and i didn't even try to spend any time positioning the mic, just set it down on some stuff by the amp, and...

what a difference, i had no idea. unfortunately, it's way too muddy, it sounds reminiscent a lot of low-quality demos i've heard before. but i'm sure if i position the mic, and possibly mix it with the DI'd sound someway, I could get it to sound a lot better/cleaner. maybe use the DI sound but with the mic for ambience? one question - is it better to use the eq/reverb on the amp, or to do it later during post-processing?

and about micing bass, i have some old (60s?) huge, entertainment-center-type RCA speakers that went with a record player, but playing my bass through those (with a separate amp) sounds a lot better than you'd expect. would micing one of these work better than DI? or sound good in combination?

 

[solo.guitar]

well, i took the plunge... plugged in my guitar and my sm57. my amp was buried under some stuff (including a record player), and i didn't even try to spend any time positioning the mic, just set it down on some stuff by the amp, and...

what a difference, i had no idea. unfortunately, it's way too muddy,

Before mic placement, I'd get the amp out from whatever it's buried under first. That's probably why it sounds muddy.

it sounds reminiscent a lot of low-quality demos i've heard before. but i'm sure if i position the mic, and possibly mix it with the DI'd sound someway, I could get it to sound a lot better/cleaner.

Recording with a mic in combination with DI is common for both guitar and bass. If you have 2 channels you could record them at the same time, or you could also record them seperately and layer them together which can usually produce a more 'full' sound, and sound better if your timing is good.

one question - is it better to use the eq/reverb on the amp, or to do it later during post-processing?

I would try to get the best sound coming out of the amp/mic before doing any kind of post-processing.

 

[easlern]

It took me a while to understand this one too. I think the DI may represent the actual sound of the guitar better since it doesn't let amp + mic + preamp + who-knows-what mess with the signal, but it just doesn't sound very pleasant or natural. Even micing my crappy practice amp sounds better than DI, IMO. <shrug>

 

[Farview]

It took me a while to understand this one too. I think the DI may represent the actual sound of the guitar better since it doesn't let amp + mic + preamp + who-knows-what mess with the signal, but it just doesn't sound very pleasant or natural. Even micing my crappy practice amp sounds better than DI, IMO. <shrug>

The DI will only represent the sound of the guitar if you have an active DI box or a designated instrument input. Line inputs and passive DI boxes are not the right impedance and will load down the pickups, making them sound bad.

The other thing that you have to realize is that electric guitars are designed to be listened to through guitar amps. The guitar amp is part of the sound, the speaker is another part of the sound. All three work together, bypassing any of them will result in a goofy sound.

 

[zildjohn01]

amp is set up on a chair. using an sm57, wherever i position the mic, i get way too much of a high-end "grunge" (for lack of a better word). the best spot i could find is perpendicular to the grille, not even an inch away, vertically even with the cone's center, maybe 75% from the center to outside of the cone.

raw audio

i found that eq helped a little bit, the best i could do was a 10db cut at 5khz with q=10 (cutting that many db seems too extreme to me)

messing with the eq

the "grunge" is still there, but supressed a lot. this sounds too muffled to me. if i move the mic any closer to the outside of the speaker, the sound gets too mellow, but you can still hear the grunge no matter where the mic sits. i'd rather get this closer to right at the source. any ideas?

 

[andycerrone]

The DI will only represent the sound of the guitar if you have an active DI box or a designated instrument input. Line inputs and passive DI boxes are not the right impedance and will load down the pickups, making them sound bad.

The other thing that you have to realize is that electric guitars are designed to be listened to through guitar amps. The guitar amp is part of the sound, the speaker is another part of the sound. All three work together, bypassing any of them will result in a goofy sound.

Perfectly explained.

 

[Reilley]

Some of the more interesting guitar work in rock history was done by putting a sizeable Fender or Marshall amp in an isolation booth with a mic or two, and turning the amp up full blast. At that volume, good amps get pretty dynamic.

DI won't cut that.