Why doesn't my record sound like Led Zeppelin?

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mattd

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I've been experimenting with mic placement around my guitar amp. I've got a Peavey Classic 30 sitting on a hardwood floor in my dining room. I've got one SM57 3 or 4 feet away pointed straight at the cone, so it gets the direct sound and also the reflected sound off the floor. I've got another SM57 almost inside the back of the amp, a bit off center, straight at the cone, and I've inverted that one to correct for out-of-phase. I record each mic to a separate track and then balance the levels on playback.

I'm pleased with the guitar tone that I recorded -- it's thick, full, balanced, clear, in-your-face-ish. It actually sounds very close to what I hear when I just play the guitar and stand near the amp. The signal level is quite high, so all around, I'm happy with the sound I can record. It almost sounds like the guitar is just plugged straight into the monitors. I'm assuming that these are all good things.

I'm trying to use a Zeppelin track as a guide to mimic tone and mix levels, etc., not necessarily to copy the tone exactly but just to feel like I've got control over the sound and can make it do some things and see if I can make it sound somewhat professional.

But when I listen to the guide Zeppelin track, Jimmy Page's tone sounds very polished, whereas my tone sounds raw (raw is the best word I can use to describe it). I'm assuming his recording process was somewhat similar to mine and started out with the same raw tone. What turns it into polished tone?

Is it better reverb units? More ambient mics placed around the room? EQ cuts? Compression? Lower mix level? All of these?

Or is the problem that my original tone just isn't as good as I like to think it is?

Thanks for all suggestions.
 
mattd said:
I've been experimenting with mic placement around my guitar amp. I've got a Peavey Classic 30 sitting on a hardwood floor in my dining room. I've got one SM57 3 or 4 feet away pointed straight at the cone, so it gets the direct sound and also the reflected sound off the floor. I've got another SM57 almost inside the back of the amp, a bit off center, straight at the cone, and I've inverted that one to correct for out-of-phase. I record each mic to a separate track and then balance the levels on playback.

I'm pleased with the guitar tone that I recorded -- it's thick, full, balanced, clear, in-your-face-ish. It actually sounds very close to what I hear when I just play the guitar and stand near the amp. The signal level is quite high, so all around, I'm happy with the sound I can record. It almost sounds like the guitar is just plugged straight into the monitors. I'm assuming that these are all good things.

I'm trying to use a Zeppelin track as a guide to mimic tone and mix levels, etc., not necessarily to copy the tone exactly but just to feel like I've got control over the sound and can make it do some things and see if I can make it sound somewhat professional.

But when I listen to the guide Zeppelin track, Jimmy Page's tone sounds very polished, whereas my tone sounds raw (raw is the best word I can use to describe it). I'm assuming his recording process was somewhat similar to mine and started out with the same raw tone. What turns it into polished tone?

Is it better reverb units? More ambient mics placed around the room? EQ cuts? Compression? Lower mix level? All of these?

Or is the problem that my original tone just isn't as good as I like to think it is?

Thanks for all suggestions.
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Try looking up what gear he used, and recording techniques.

Also, post up your recordings and post up the zepp sound you're looking for.

We might be able to help you then
 
Even if you had Page's guitar, in the same studio, with the same engineer, with the same amp and mics, you'd sound different.

This is primarily because you are not Jimmy Page.
 
Supercreep said:
Even if you had Page's guitar, in the same studio, with the same engineer, with the same amp and mics, you'd sound different.

This is primarily because you are not Jimmy Page.
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why don't you give the guy tips on how to become jimmy page instead of just being so negative? i suppose you think the military might be good for him too?
 
Once I saw "Why doesn't my record sound like Led Zeppelin?" and the last reply being from Ez_Willis... I expected more.

Lettin the team down :mad:
 
philbagg said:
Once I saw "Why doesn't my record sound like Led Zeppelin?" and the last reply being from Ez_Willis... I expected more.

Lettin the team down :mad:
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chili yelled at me yesterday for telling a guy to join the military.....look at my sig.
 
mattd said:
I'm pleased with the guitar tone that I recorded -- it's thick, full, balanced, clear, in-your-face-ish. It actually sounds very close to what I hear when I just play the guitar and stand near the amp.
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So what else are you looking for? If you're pleased with your recorded tone you are doing better than a lot of people. So you aren't sounding like Page. You also have to take your guitar in context with the rest of the band (or the rest of your material.) You may also consider backing off your recording levels and giving your material more room to breathe. Just some thoughts. But, yeah, if you're happy with it . . . . . just let it be.
 
ez_willis said:
chili yelled at me yesterday for telling a guy to join the military.....look at my sig.
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I saw the conversation, laughed at the sig for about 2 minutes straight. I can't look at it any longer, my sides hurt :D

"ROFLMFAO... YSST" etc.
 
Mattb, are you listening to the guitar part that you recorded solo'd, or is it mixed in with other instruments? It may not sound quite so raw when it is blended in with some drums, bass, second guitar etc.
 
philbagg said:
Try looking up what gear he used, and recording techniques.

Also, post up your recordings and post up the zepp sound you're looking for.

We might be able to help you then
Click to expand...

Ok. I've uploaded a clip to soundcloud as recommended by another user on the forum, though the name escapes me. So credit to whoever he was.

Here's the URL:
http://soundcloud.com/user9853785/gtr1
Hope I've done it right. It's the two mics blended together with no comp or EQ or anything added.

I'm not looking to copy a particular Zeppelin song, but wondering why when I pick the guitar out of a Zeppelin song, it doesn't sound nearly as dense as my raw guitar track.

I guess my question is: is this usable starting tone or have I done my tracking wrong?
 
I just listened to the sample, it's not bad. There are several things you can try to fatten the sound, the first I'd suggest is to record the clip again, this time very clean (maybe just a little reverb or delay) and blend the two tracks together. Most importantly keep in mind the sound you are hearing on a CD has probably been mixed, remixed, dubbed, remixed and mastered, all by top notch pros on high end gear, not the same sound as what you should expect from a raw track.
 
nate_dennis said:
You may also consider backing off your recording levels and giving your material more room to breathe.
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Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, though. Do you mean that I should shoot for peaks much lower than -1dB or so during recording? So, instead I should shoot for recording peaks at -10dB? If so, why would that be different than just bringing the fader down -10dB during playback?
 
mattd said:
Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, though. Do you mean that I should shoot for peaks much lower than -1dB or so during recording? So, instead I should shoot for recording peaks at -10dB? If so, why would that be different than just bringing the fader down -10dB during playback?
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Because by just bringing the fader down, you're not actually taking care of the problem. You've already committed the level to "tape" and put the sound thru the AD/DA converters and pushed them.
In 24bit (which I'm assuming you are) there's no need to use up all the headroom in the first pass. I track all my stuff at roughly -18 with peaks at around -10. I keep my mix level at around the same. When I do my version of "mastering", that's where I'll push the levels.

food for thought man...
 
DB's hit it I think...dont track so hot...Im around a -14db guy myself...always give yourself plenty of headroom and check your gain stages
 
I don't know how limited you are on mics but, try a condenser in front. 57's then to have a more 'raw' sound to them in the first place. Also, consider the acoustic space you are recording in.

Good luck
 
+100

The average level you should be going for is around -18dbfs. The peaks can go a little higher like -12dbfs or so.

The short explanation is: All the equipment outside of the computer was designed to work at line level. Line level outside the computer equates to about -18dbfs inside the computer.

When you have peaks reaching -1dbfs, you are running all of your mic preamps and everything outside the computer 18db too hot. This will tend to make things sound smaller and more pinched because you are overdriving the signal chain out of its comfort zone.

This goes for everything that you record.
 
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