why aren't the majority of people on these boards successful?

[bongolation]

and on top of that... I'm sure most can determine what really is good or not regardless of their personal preference of style in music... why don't we help each other out? just a thought.

I was successful, in terms of having a scary amount of influence if not a scary amount of money. The industry listened - and listened hard - to what my ear told me about new indy acts, who should make it to the next level and who shouldn't, whose sound needed work, whose material stunk. I was one of a handful of people who, working together in NYC, made c. 1979 "Modern Rock" a viable format nationally for the next decade or two.

When it comes to recognizing good material, acts, production, recording and promotion, I know what I'm talking about. I have a good ear and a good nose.

I got out of the business for about twenty years because I could make more money doing something else that was for me more real, exciting and interesting. I got back into dabbling with music when I retired early.

I don't "help" people because people won't listen.

Because I am a "has-been," I'm in the same category of credibility as any Internet "never-was." I'm just someone on the net. Everyone on the net is just as negligible as anyone else. Nobody has to listen to me, because if I were worth listening to I'd be doing something important instead of screwing around on the net with a bunch of contentious ignoramuses.

Right?

 

[Alteezza]

You should bombard all the recording industries with an email of this very question. I'm sure they all will have some interesting asnswers that all mean basically " shut the hell up""you don't know what is/isn't succes worthy.""We look at hundreds a day and decide what is the next big thing."
Sad...sad I know. But that is unfortunatly how it is. I am also a firm believer that if you want to aquire something bad enough, such as being successful in the music industry, then your hard work will pay off. But think about it. Too be a pop star, which kinda means that your an artist in search of fame, you would have to change who you are to some degree. You would have to be an idol whether you want to believe it or not. That would be what it would entail to a small degree and by the looks of some posts I don't think people here are looking for that.
But if you want an easy way to gain fame you can always go out and commit a serious crime. That works for some people. Infamous ha ha
Harris

 

[bongolation]

I am also a firm believer that if you want to aquire something bad enough, such as being successful in the music industry, then your hard work will pay off.

Another reason I don't "help people" is that they persist in believing nonsense like this.

Here's my advice:

Read Jacob Slichter's So You Wanna be a Rock & Roll Star.... Buy it or get it at your library. It's the best, truest thing on "making it" I have ever read.

 

[lpdeluxe]

Another thought: there are nearly 30,000 members of homerecording.com, about the same as the population of the town I live in. Dare I say, many of us found this website by accident (I found it several years ago when I was searching for the late Home Recording Magazine's site), and there may even be a few of us who are not totally up to speed with the recording biz (i.e.: those who ask, "How do I plug my microphone into my sound card?"). Add to that the fact that reasonably priced digital recording is a very recent phenomenon, as is the web itself: both sprang into existence only with the availability of powerful home computers, in say, the last ten years. In short, while there are a number here who earn a living with music generally or recording specifically, this may not be the best place to go trolling for the rich and famous. As I implied before, what I do with recording is successful to me (as Chessparov said, "Please define 'successful'"), but there is what I touched on before, the assumption that, by grace of appearing here, I'm NOT successful.

So the question itself is meaningless, fatuous, and insulting.

Other than that, it's thought-provoking for the first 20 seconds or so.

But I'm so glad you asked.

 

[bongolation]

So the question itself is meaningless, fatuous, and insulting.

Largely, yes.

But it's telling that almost nobody has a more specific take on what "making it" actually involves. Pointing out, for example, that an act "making it" involves a few hundred full-time professionals providing various services the typical musician doesn't even realize exist, the failure by any one of which can irretrievably sink the act, just gets you blank looks.

The typical musician knows less about "making it" in the recording business than a cat knows about Christmas.

Perpetuating the truly "fatuous" myths and fantasies these people hold dear is extremely big business. I was personally amazed that Slichter's book was even publishable.

 

[Farview]

Having been in a band sunk by the failure of the few that were asleep at the wheel, I will back up Bongolation. The amount of seemingly unrelated crap that needs to get done is staggering. It's amazing that the record industry isn't toppling under it's own weight. (or is it?)

 

[Middleman]

Well, it’s a business with a product. Few of the newly initiated get this.

Musicians that don't have the goal of running a successful business rarely make the next step. Any small business takes a lot of hustle to be a growing concern.

Investment, Product, Marketing, Sales, Receivables, Payables.

Economics 101.

Oh, and this still does not ensure you will be successful.

 

[Farview]

Investment, Product, Marketing, Sales, Receivables, Payables.

Odd, I don't see musical talent on this list. hhhhmmmmm. I know that must mean something, but I just can't put my finger on it.

 

[Alteezza]

Sorry but I am still a firm believer that if you want something bad enough you hopefully will still achieve it. What do you think...that people who are "successful" in the status that I have mentioned just happened to accidentally become famous musicians? I'm not trying to give a game-winning motivational speech but it's not all too silly to think that you can achieve a goal by dedication, no matter how much tedious and redundant work it take. I believe that evryone here is successful in music as a hobby or personal moneymaker and we are helping each other by forums like this. I have this discussion on a daily basis and you wouldn't believe the "nonesense crap" that flushes out of peoples mouths on this subject. There are people who out there who book/tour/ and promote themselves and even though they don't make millions selling their physical image they are still making more money than if they played in a coffee shop/bar/fair and they have a wide fan base by doing what they love to do. We are all successful

 

[mikeh]

Interesting thread (although I don't see where it relates to Mics).

As has been pointed out - what is success? Why doesn't everyone on this site have contracts with major labels? Why aren't we all filthy rich (OK, some of us may meet half that expectation).

As Middleman points out, very few musicians have the drive and business savvy to pursue a musical career to a point that it can actually support them (let alone a family) What do a musician and a small pizza have in common? Neither can feed a family of 4.

While I do believe (to a degree) that if you want something bad enough and if you are prepared to work hard and sacrifice anything that is a distraction to your goal - there is a reasonable chance that you can reach your goal. But is that success?

I was a full time "professional" musician for several years and have been a "semi pro" for many years. As a performing musician I've earned a significant amount of money and often turned down work (I was sometimes offered 3 gigs for the same night) - does that make me successful? The answer is no! Many times I've played music I did not enjoy with musicians I did not respect - that is not success. So now I work a day job that is financially secure and mentally challenging and enjoy music as an income producing hobby. Is that success?

When I write a piece of music I enjoy, when I continue to improve as a musician, when my friends and business associates like/respect me, when I contribute to the world in some positive manner - that is success!

Success - is it really any more than being healthy and happy???

 

[crazydoc]

Success isn't fun.
Success isn't satisfying.
Success sucks.

Ask Elvis, Janis, Jimi, Kurt, ....

 

[grn]

...

so what then for those who want success on the completely superficial level that has ended up getting several of the ones who have made it killed...

and why don't we all have big fat record contracts?

 

[lpdeluxe]

Oh, so THAT's what you consider success!


So we're pitiful losers unless we have, not just "a", but "a big fat" record contract!

It's all clear to me now.

 

[grn]

I think you're being completely ridiculous and pretentious... I consider success being able to survive sufficiently on my own without help from anyone else. That being said (to get it out of the way), I see the potential on these boards for several performers to get that record contract with the help of the other people on these boards and the skills they have, whatever their area of expertise happens to be.

And no, I am not calling anyone losers. I am not saying many aren't successful on various levels. I think maybe if you were a bit more serious about the question and actually thought about what you were saying then you might have something useful to add to this thread other than what everyone else has been saying. You don't have to be original, just come to the conclusion on your own, present it in a manner in which it's easily understood, and spare me the sarcasm.

 

[grn]

Also, many say "success isn't fun", how can you truly know unless you've been there? I don't know. I don't claim to know. I just think the potential is here and why hasn't it happened yet?

I'm basically giving everyone on these boards my admiration and respect for their talents.

 

[crazydoc]

Also, many say "success isn't fun", how can you truly know unless you've been there?

And where is that? There are many forms of success. For some people just getting through the day without going to jail is a success. Some feel that raising their kids to be happy, productive members of society is a success. For others finding a cure for cancer is a success. And then there's Donald Trump.

I think the problem here is that you've used a subjective, emotionally charged term. I don't know what you mean by success, but it seems like you mean "making it big financially in the recording industry." Maybe a better title for this thread would have been "Why haven't the majority of the people on these boards made it big in the recording industry?"
Then we could give answers like:

I'm too ignorant and don't have the knowledge and experience

I don't want to make it big - its a hobby and I just want to improve my skills to the point where my recordings don't suck as much as they used to

I don't know why - my mom says my recording skills are great, but nobody wants to pay me for them

I have made it big - I just don't post here anymore

 

[Big Kenny]

"I consider success being able to survive sufficiently on my own without help from anyone else." grn #54
Then you are right, no one here, or on this planet, is successful.

 

[mikeh]

grn,

I suspect what you have been trying to get at is the fact that there does appear to be several people on this site that have talent and fairly good knowledge of the recording process - and if the right people could combine those talents they could possibly create a product that could be sucessfully marketed to and by a record label.

While there may be people on this site who wish they could achieve commercial success in the music industry - it is very likley few would be willing to relocate, leave their day jobs, perhaps abandon thier families for a remote chance of music industry "success". Maybe, some are talented enough but are they hungry enough and savvy enough?

I've known a few people who got "close" - hell back in the mid 70's I was rubbing elbows (actually passings joints) with some very name acts from the Northern California music scene (Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver, the "Dead"), but close don't mean "success". They played huge festivals, etc. while I played crappy bars - thinking "man I'm so close" - I kept thinking "maybe I'll get a break" but I certainly was not happy.

If you really, really want success and you truly believe you have the talent (keep in mind there are many extremely talented people fighting for "success") then go for it.

Take every gig with every person you can. Pass out your card to anyone remotely associated with the industry. Put together a flawless demo and promo packet. Find a manager, find an attorney who focuses on entertainment law (naturally, this means moving to LA or Nashville or perhaps New York). Be prepared to starve for a while (maybe a long while) and likely sleep on peoples floors. Forget about a family life or for that matter any life outside of music.

An don't ever think you can do it on your own with no help from anyone else. "success" requires more help than you can imagine - and more luck than most can hope for.

Do all that, and maybe, just maybe you will get a break and be "successful" - but based on what I seen, experianced and read about - the end of the rainbow ain't as pretty as may seem.

 

[bongolation]

and why don't we all have big fat record contracts?

Speaking for myself, because I turned my offer from Island Records down flat. It was more trouble than it was worth. At the time, I had all the celebrity I could stand and didn't want any more unless there was enough monetary compensation for my trouble, work and loss of privacy.

99% of the people on these fora have no conception of what a "big record contract" even is. What it isn't is a big pile of free money. It's a big credit line of funny money called "recoupable debt" that everyone in the world seems to get a piece of except you.

It's just a really crazy amusement park ride that leaves you as broke as when you got on.

Unless you have a piece of the mechanical royalties from publishing, typically you can be a member of a newly-signed band that goes platinum and never see a penny from it.

Why bother?

 

[Robertt8]

I think you're being completely ridiculous and pretentious... I consider success being able to survive sufficiently on my own without help from anyone else. That being said (to get it out of the way), I see the potential on these boards for several performers to get that record contract with the help of the other people on these boards and the skills they have, whatever their area of expertise happens to be.

GRN, check out this article by Steve Albini if you haven't already...

http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html

Depressing in an interesting way, but pretty funny none the less...Are those people he's talking about with those MAJOR contracts a success?! It sure doesn't sound like it.