Whirlpool - new tunage

Armistice

Armistice

Son of Yoda
Whirlwind

[edit] it's actually called "Whirlwind" not "Whirlpool" - I tell you, the number of takes I fucked up by singing "whirlpool" instead.:facepalm::D

I seem to keep doing 6 minute songs. Sorry 'bout that... :eek: I'll go shorter next time.

First mix, have listened way too much to have any objectivity left and my mixing set up sucks - the usual excuses.:mad: It's a 256 MP3 to keep the file size under control at least a bit.

Although not strictly biographical, I realised towards the end of its creation that it's sort of about a friend of mine who's retreating further and further from this messy thing we call life. I toyed with chopping the last section off, but it seems that all my songs have the big double chorus orgasmic crescendo thing. Right. At. The. Very. End. *breathes* and I thought it'd be a better idea this time to just bring it down in the last section, and let you have a post-coital cigarette, so to speak, with some nice chillin' beats ... :laughings:

Rip in. All feedback welcomed. I strive always to overcome my limitations in mixing - always challenging with big messy things like this.:thumbs up:




LYRICS
Won’t do you no good to hide away
But you don’t listen to what people say now do ya?
It ain’t the scars from some tainted love*
It ain’t the voice of your good lord above talking to ya
You know when we were younger, remember then?
And you stabbed that kid with a fountain pen
You were a crazy little one, but now?
You’ve forgotten all those times anyhow
This seems a little grey, a little light, a little like you’re on the slide
So give up the gentle breeze, step into the whirlwind outside

You were the one who was never afraid
Now you’re distracted, indisposed and delayed aren’t you?
And you’re the one we all tiptoe around
You can be startled by the slightest sound now can’t you?
You were the one who most likely to, so what’s this?
Used to be you’d never, ever, ever miss
And when you completely dissolve, what’s next?
You just seem eternally perplexed
This seems a little grey, a little light, a little like you’re on the slide
Damn the gentle breeze, step into the whirlwind outside

It's warm in here / it's nice in here / inside

It sure is pretty, your immaculate cage
Show us again how you rock and you rage now will you?
Might take a while longer but eventually
That whirling devil in your head you don’t see will kill you
We’re all a little older now, who cares?
There’s nothing at the bottom of the stairs
Amid the shards of shattered pasts we all pray
Your Technicolor isn’t fading out to grey
This seems a little fey, a little white, a little like a place to hide
Throw it all away and step into the hailstorm outside
This seems a little grey, a little light, a little like you’re on the slide
Damn the gentle breeze, step into the whirlwind outside

It's nice in here / it's warm in here / I'm not leaving / what are you trying to do?

What are you trying to do?





* Yeah, I know. And I'm soooo tempted to put in that three note riff in after that line, just so I can really make it an official rip off.:laughings:
 
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The Rhodes tone is cool.
There's a spot where the vocal get a big accent and I think it combines with the reverb to create some sibilance - I'll pin point it - 1.46 'Can't you".
Lovely guitar playing David, some really cool touches added to colour the song too.
It's a very cool song, deep story too.
The ONLY thing I could point to is some of the drum patterns seem uncertain/hesitant.
That's because I was looking for something to mention I think.
Great texture, & lovely sound washes in the backing too.
It does highlight Television Adventure aesthetics.
 
rayc said:
The Rhodes tone is cool.
There's a spot where the vocal get a big accent and I think it combines with the reverb to create some sibilance - I'll pin point it - 1.46 'Can't you".
Lovely guitar playing David, some really cool touches added to colour the song too.
It's a very cool song, deep story too.
The ONLY thing I could point to is some of the drum patterns seem uncertain/hesitant.
That's because I was looking for something to mention I think.
Great texture, & lovely sound washes in the backing too.
It does highlight Television Adventure aesthetics.
Click to expand...

Thanks ray - yeah that "can't" - I've already knocked it down a bit - I have a "whisper" track behind those last couple of words in each line, and it works well for the soft words, but the "c" is a bit much. I'll pull it all down a bit further. Also had planned on going back into the drum tracks - they're quite old and I've got a bit more adventurous / knowledgable since watching and listening to bubba po jr - see if I can spice them up a bit without overdoing it.
 
Nicely atmospheric. Cool intro. Playing is good. I feel you haven't got your groove nailed down yet. The drums are hesitant as rayc noted. But also the pattern they are playing isn't agreeing with the timing of your playing and singing. Take 1:01, "it seems a little grey." You''re hitting those strong chord changes on your bass, and you've got that guitar riff that kicks in, but the drums don't lock up. It sounds like they're playing some kind of jazzy, skippy shuffle, while your playing and singing aren't shuffling. The lack of agreement on time defuses what should be an impactful moment in the song. I'm hearing this throughout the song. It deserves another crack at the drums. Ditch the shuffle, play it simpler and solid. I know well what a pain in the ass is trying to program drums for a song with any subtlety going on in the rhythm. We've both spent endless hours of frustration doing it.

Tones are good. Good P bass sound. Mixwise, I like the openness. If you get the kick steady, it could come up. The piano gets in the way of your vocal in places. The doubled guitar is loud for me in places.

I listened several times to that transition that begins at 5:11. Nice.
 
Robus said:
Nicely atmospheric. Cool intro. Playing is good. I feel you haven't got your groove nailed down yet. The drums are hesitant as rayc noted. But also the pattern they are playing isn't agreeing with the timing of your playing and singing. Take 1:01, "it seems a little grey." You''re hitting those strong chord changes on your bass, and you've got that guitar riff that kicks in, but the drums don't lock up. It sounds like they're playing some kind of jazzy, skippy shuffle, while your playing and singing aren't shuffling. The lack of agreement on time defuses what should be an impactful moment in the song. I'm hearing this throughout the song. It deserves another crack at the drums. Ditch the shuffle, play it simpler and solid. I know well what a pain in the ass is trying to program drums for a song with any subtlety going on in the rhythm. We've both spent endless hours of frustration doing it.

Tones are good. Good P bass sound. Mixwise, I like the openness. If you get the kick steady, it could come up. The piano gets in the way of your vocal in places. The doubled guitar is loud for me in places.

I listened several times to that transition that begins at 5:11. Nice.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the listen.:thumbs up:

I decided I had a bit too much going on in the off-beat snare hit department seeing both rays have mentioned it so I've removed a ton of them and straightened out the kick here and there as well - without (I hope) completely killing the feel I was after... sort of stays straightish with the singing, then swings a little where there's no singing.

Got to the nasty "can't" and tamed it and did a few other minor tweakies as well. NEW MIX UP.
 
The end of the toms roll at 2.01 seems a little odd in the "I don't know what I'm supposed to do" realm.
The simplification of the offbeat works a treat.
The bass lines behind the solo are very cool - and really made me take notice of the instrument.
I'd like to be as able to use reverb and delay as you are. I can't help but overdo it so now just don't.
A significant mix leap forward David.
 
You're moving in the right direction. You have simplified the drums and made them steadier. You could go farther in that direction, IMO. The fills in particular are still disrupting your groove. Take the start of the first verse, from where the singing begins. It's solid until you get to that fill. You anticipate the fill with what sounds to me like a nervous double tap on the kick at 0:19, but the trouble really begins around 0:21 or so when the kick stops supporting the pulse and does it's own thing. The fill isn't out of time, that I can tell, but it does sound like an unsure drummer trying to brazen it through a part he's not really feeling. I mention this fill because it occurs often in your song, so it calls attention to itself.

Did you bring the piano down? Sounds like it. Mix sounds good to me.
 
Hi,

Cool song with a really nice vibe. A little dark, but not depressing - exactly my kind of thing.

I see others have commented on groove. The thing that caught my ear here was the need for some vocal processing. Primarily levelling (try a gain rider plug, like Terry Wests steady) to level it out, then add a compressor if needed either for more leveling or color. I also think you can EQ some more clarity from it. In my head, I hear a breathy, big voice hovering above this – it’s a bit hidden as is. I saw this neat trick on Pensado’s Place the other day – he boosted a couple of dB around 18-20khz to bring up what he called “that expensive sound”. Maybe that, in combination with some more top clarity would be all you’d need here. Hard to say without a mix with the vocals louder in them.

Keep it up :)
 
I like the guitar, vocal, and bass tones. Sounds super warm. Nice touches here and there with effects and nuance sounds.

There are parts where vocals and guitars are going where I think guitars could be dipped a few DBs. :35 is the first one. You have a big chord that washes over there, but I think it's too much. Happens to a lesser extent at 1:05. Interestingly enough, even though it's the same riff, it seems fine at 1:15. Happens at 2:26. It's not real bad or anything, the arrangement just seems a bit crowded there.

I kinda wish the guitar solo's warmth matched the rhythm guitars (3:20). It's a touch thin by comparison.

I like the ending. Sounds very refined. Often times people don't focus on endings enough.
 
rayc said:
The end of the toms roll at 2.01 seems a little odd in the "I don't know what I'm supposed to do" realm.
The simplification of the offbeat works a treat.
The bass lines behind the solo are very cool - and really made me take notice of the instrument.
I'd like to be as able to use reverb and delay as you are. I can't help but overdo it so now just don't.
A significant mix leap forward David.
Click to expand...

Thanks ray. I've straightened it out a little more now, but it's by no means dead straight nor was it intended ever to be so, I like the jazzier bits after the end of each vocal line so I kept them.

Robus said:
You're moving in the right direction. You have simplified the drums and made them steadier. You could go farther in that direction, IMO. The fills in particular are still disrupting your groove. Take the start of the first verse, from where the singing begins. It's solid until you get to that fill. You anticipate the fill with what sounds to me like a nervous double tap on the kick at 0:19, but the trouble really begins around 0:21 or so when the kick stops supporting the pulse and does it's own thing. The fill isn't out of time, that I can tell, but it does sound like an unsure drummer trying to brazen it through a part he's not really feeling. I mention this fill because it occurs often in your song, so it calls attention to itself.

Did you bring the piano down? Sounds like it. Mix sounds good to me.
Click to expand...

I hadn't bought the piano down, but I have now by a couple of db. As I said to ray above, I've straightened it out a little more and will continue to listen to it. There's still a kick or two I may move. That kick at 0:19 was an accidental leave. :)


invoid said:
Hi,

Cool song with a really nice vibe. A little dark, but not depressing - exactly my kind of thing.

I see others have commented on groove. The thing that caught my ear here was the need for some vocal processing. Primarily levelling (try a gain rider plug, like Terry Wests steady) to level it out, then add a compressor if needed either for more leveling or color. I also think you can EQ some more clarity from it. In my head, I hear a breathy, big voice hovering above this – it’s a bit hidden as is. I saw this neat trick on Pensado’s Place the other day – he boosted a couple of dB around 18-20khz to bring up what he called “that expensive sound”. Maybe that, in combination with some more top clarity would be all you’d need here. Hard to say without a mix with the vocals louder in them.

Keep it up :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the listen, I'll look into what you've said. I've nudged the vocal up a smidge and given it a discreet EQ up high.

ibleedburgundy said:
I like the guitar, vocal, and bass tones. Sounds super warm. Nice touches here and there with effects and nuance sounds.

There are parts where vocals and guitars are going where I think guitars could be dipped a few DBs. :35 is the first one. You have a big chord that washes over there, but I think it's too much. Happens to a lesser extent at 1:05. Interestingly enough, even though it's the same riff, it seems fine at 1:15. Happens at 2:26. It's not real bad or anything, the arrangement just seems a bit crowded there.

I kinda wish the guitar solo's warmth matched the rhythm guitars (3:20). It's a touch thin by comparison.

I like the ending. Sounds very refined. Often times people don't focus on endings enough.
Click to expand...

Thanks IBB - there was something about that particular guitar chord which made it stand out more when I was panning from L to R than the other way around, and I was alternating - I've run a compressor over it to just tuck it in a little and done a bit of volume automation as well. Doesn't quite take your head off so much. Agree on the lead - I've done what I can to smooth it out a bit - and so it's also a little smoother, but only so much can be done without retracking on a different guitar. :)

NEW MIX UP.
 
This mix is the best so far. The bassiness I spoke to you about on PM is tamed quite nicely but it's still a little overblown. I still really like that intro. :) And I still think you sound like Peter Gabriel. Manda thinks there's a bit of michael Stipe in there, too. :D The eqing on the vocal still isn't quite right, to me. It's sort of crispy rather than airy and doesn't quite sit with the very warm, smooth treatment of the backing. There's perhaps too much boost around the 7-8k mark. Just a guess.

I don't hear any "wrongness" e.g. over-programmed/over-busy rhythms in the drums, now. It's great. :)
 
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Bubba po said:
This mix is the best so far. The bassiness I spoke to you about on PM is tamed quite nicely but it's still a little overblown. I still really like that intro. :) And I still think you sound like Peter Gabriel. Manda thinks there's a bit of michael Stipe in there, too. :D The eqing on the vocal still isn't quite right, to me. It's sort of crispy rather than airy and doesn't quite sit with the very warm, smooth treatment of the backing. There's perhaps too much boost around the 7-8k mark. Just a guess.

I don't hear any "wrongless" e.g. over-programmed/over-busy rhythms in the drums, now. It's great. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks bubba. Yes, listening on my phone this morning I can tell I need to pull the bass in particular in a little still. I had pushed the kick up a touch, but too far now I think, so I'll shove it down a bit. Will have a look at the vocal EQ too, you've mentioned that frequency with my vocals and that mic before, so I may need to do a little more excavation. I don't have it in front of me, but I'm sure I haven't boosted anything there. Will get onto it all when I get home. Really annoying having to work when you have mixing to do... :laughings:

NEW MIX UP
 
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Sounds pretty great. The tremolo guitar levels seem like they could come down just a bit, they seem like they're competing with the vocal a little.
 
When the song quiets down around 2:40 (?), the drums are low in the mix. No one else mentioned it, but the lead vocal to me sounds a bit muted, could use just a little air. I think the bass could be louder throughout.
Good tune overall.
 
easlern said:
Sounds pretty great. The tremolo guitar levels seem like they could come down just a bit, they seem like they're competing with the vocal a little.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I hear what you mean. I'll wind the HPF up a touch and reduce the overall volume just a smidge. Cheers.

mjbphotos said:
When the song quiets down around 2:40 (?), the drums are low in the mix. No one else mentioned it, but the lead vocal to me sounds a bit muted, could use just a little air. I think the bass could be louder throughout.
Good tune overall.
Click to expand...

Thanks mjb - I checked the drum volume in the quiet section and they seem the same level - not sure that that is. And I've also put a bit more "air" in the lead vocal insofar as I understand the concept :) via a little EQ boosting in the places where I'm not savagely cutting. It's a bit of a lottery. Adjusted bass mix as well. Cheers


NEW MIX UP
 
didn't read previous comments.

cool intro dude. that's my kinda thing.

harmonies are great. mixed well to me. i like the OH's a lot, sound nice and crisp. the synth line comes in nicely in the spaces you fit it into. are these 2 separate guitar takes on the L and R rhythms? your guitar leads are taking the C position during the breaks, yes? that's good, i like that. is it one take dead center or do you have two tracks copied and pasted with separate fx on one? hard to judge the low end on my work buds...sorry. i'd say bass up a db, but too hard to tell on these things.

nice and clear, spacing is great. vocals fit perfectly in their places. great work man.
 
andrushkiwt said:
didn't read previous comments.

cool intro dude. that's my kinda thing.

harmonies are great. mixed well to me. i like the OH's a lot, sound nice and crisp. the synth line comes in nicely in the spaces you fit it into. are these 2 separate guitar takes on the L and R rhythms? your guitar leads are taking the C position during the breaks, yes? that's good, i like that. is it one take dead center or do you have two tracks copied and pasted with separate fx on one? hard to judge the low end on my work buds...sorry. i'd say bass up a db, but too hard to tell on these things.

nice and clear, spacing is great. vocals fit perfectly in their places. great work man.
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Thanks andrush... (you'll have to explain that name sometime) - the lead is one take at the start then I put a second take (not copied and pasted - a different take completely) late in in the second half right at the very end, which you can sort of hear with the two of them not quite matching. Just thought it sounded cool that way.

I'm pretty happy with it overall. Still going a bit back and forth on the level of the bass, now that you mention it. Depends what I'm listening on.:thumbs up:
 
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