which stick grip?

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_brian_

_brian_

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Hi all, I'm just wanting to get into good habits early so... in your opinion which is the best stick grip for quiet, speedy, dynamic playing? I have no interest in generating power, I just want to make sure that I optimise my playing for a jazzy kind of style. I know there is traditional, but I really feel that it limits the amount of feel & feedback I get from the drums. I don't know anything about french or german (or any others there may be). At the moment I'm using matched & my fingers are not really doing any work (which I really want to change). Being able to play quietly and dynamically is important to me. Anyway over to the experts ;)

PS can afford lessons (before you tell me :p)
 
Matched grip.

If you can't play quiet and with finesse with matched grip, then you have technique problems.

Matched grip does everything traditional does, and more.
 
hi,
the bad news is that there's no tecnique that allows you to 'play quietly and dynamically' itself. The good news is that every kind of grip - if properly practiced - allows you to have 'power' as well as 'quiet, speedy, dynamic playing'.

If you look at drums masters (Jojo Mayer, Horacio Hernandez, Virgil Donati, Vinnie Colaiuta and many many others) you'll see that they use either matched grips or traditional grip, or both, with all range of expressing possibilities.

Matched grips are: French Grip (finger drived), German Grip (wrist drived) and American Grip (hybrid of french and german grips usind both wrist and finger control)
Traditional Grip is the 'jazz' grip, also known as 'Ortodox Grip' descending from rudimental drumming and military drumlines.

The real difference from traditional and matched grips is that with matched you have only one learning process (left and right hand do the same movements). With traditional grip you have to learn different tecnique for each hand.
There are other differences (symmetric and asymmetric way of playing), but is not the place to discuss them, i think.

So...If you wanna be a pro, i suggest to study both matched and traditional grips. if not, matched grip is more appropriate.

I'm not a master, but i think the answer to you question is use tecnique you feel more confortable. And practice properly. If you don't have a teacher, i recommend Jojo Mayer's 'Secret weapons for the modern drummer'.

Hope my long reply help. And sorry for my english
 
Seafroggys said:
Matched grip.

If you can't play quiet and with finesse with matched grip, then you have technique problems.

Matched grip does everything traditional does, and more.
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You're right, I do have technique problems but this is what I'm wanting to change with all of your help. So far I've not educated myself enough with regard to "correctness in playing" I think perhaps rules should be learned before being broken & that's what I'm aiming for.

I do know that each grip performs differently & each has it's merit, I can play matched at the moment & all I can play is quietly!! (I have neighbours):D

I suppose what I'm wanting to do is learn with the grip that uses fingers to control actions to gain fluency around the kit, matched feels very "unfinesse" like, that really isn't a word is it. :rolleyes::p

French grip sounds interesting, if it's finger derived - that's what I'm looking for.
 
I think that stick grip is a personal choice unless you play in a marching band or other organized snare group where traditional grip is required. Traditional grip was necessary long ago (e.g., Civil War drummers) because of the position in which the drum was held at one's side. You can practice both traditional and matched and one or the other will become apparent as most natural for you (probably matched). As other posters said, whichever grip you choose, you must learn proper technique. Good stick control takes lots of practice. Check out Jojo Mayer's Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer DVD to learn about the history of stick grips, and proper technique. There are also lots of online video clips (YouTube and elsewhere). Have fun!
 
I play orthodox (which everyone other than me refers to as Traditional :D ), but you should be able to get whatever sound you want from whichever grip.

The grip argument is one of those horrible, horrible things that goes on forever and ever with both sides fiercely defending their opinion with nothing except personal choice to back it up with.

I strongly suggest getting Jojo Mayer's DVD on stick control, it tells you everything you need to know and much more, well worth the £20 or whatever it costs where you are.

If you really don't want to spend the money, head over to DrummerWorld and check out Derrick Pope, he has some taster videos with some great techniques for speed and power, but with a little tweaking they'll do great for low volume levels as well.
 
Elton Bear said:
I play orthodox (which everyone other than me refers to as Traditional :D ), but you should be able to get whatever sound you want from whichever grip.

The grip argument is one of those horrible, horrible things that goes on forever and ever with both sides fiercely defending their opinion with nothing except personal choice to back it up with.

I strongly suggest getting Jojo Mayer's DVD on stick control, it tells you everything you need to know and much more, well worth the £20 or whatever it costs where you are.

If you really don't want to spend the money, head over to DrummerWorld and check out Derrick Pope, he has some taster videos with some great techniques for speed and power, but with a little tweaking they'll do great for low volume levels as well.
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Jojo Mayer's DVD on stick control seems to be well admired around here so I'll have to get it. I was really looking for opinions as watching videos on youtube etc is great but they seem to be unbiased toward any grip, or give all the good points of each grip & still leave you wondering!! Although I'll get the afore mentioned dvd, I just would like to ask you all (if you can remember :D) which stick grip you were closest to when you first started playing drums? After reading & watching videos I was actually closest to the french grip when I first started. I them learned american matched - perhaps this was a mistake as it was, relatively unatural?
 
As I say, I play orthodox because I find it more comfortable, and I like the fact that my sticks are pointing in different directions, especially when you start to get into independence and things, I find it helpful that my hands aren't making the same motions.

It's difficult to get power for Funk/Rock backbeat and I just couldn't do it until I saw the Police and watched what Copeland was doing; basically Moeller and a lot of stick height.

As for American/French/German, I see them all as "matched" styles, and when I do play matched, I use all three and most variables in between at one point or another, some things you just can't do if your stick's at the wrong angle.

As Jojo says right at the start of his DVD though, if you drumstick manages to hit the drum and get a sound out, there's nothing wrong with your technique. If it works for you, go with it; don't be over-obsessed with "French" or "German".

Playing quietly is all about managing different "gears" in your technique - playing mainly with your shoulders or elbows gives you loads of power, playing with your wrists more speed, and playing with your fingers even more speed, but each gear you go down you lose some volume.
 
I play traditional grip

That's because when I first studied drumming back in 1963 that's how I was taught to play. It became comfortable for me to play that way and it is my "default" way of holding sticks when I pick them up. I will also play "matched" grip (or what we used to call "timpani style") but it is more forced and a bit uncomfortable.
I agree that it really doesn't matter all that much so long as your sound is good. For certain things traditional grip does work better (playing grace notes in jazz and playing brushes) and matched grip is better for rock and heavy blues, but so what.
If you play traditional, most drummers position the snare differently than those that play matched grip. It's difficult for me to sit in on a friend's kit without changing the angle of the snare.
 
can_o_worms.jpg
 
Traditional, Baby!

There's another good video out there by Dave Weckl where he discusses some of the advanced Moeller techniques and methods for increasing speed with both traditional and matched grip. I can't recall the title, but know that there are quite a few free clips from it posted out on YouTube...
 
I started waaaaay back with the marching band style (because I was in a marching band), but eventually we moved away from the marching band and onto the drum set, and I was allowed to use matched for that. It's more comfortable for me, though I could probably manage either if I had to. I really can't imagine trying to go crazy on the toms with traditional grip, though... if you're not into fast rock beats, then it probably doesn't matter so much. Some things are probably easier with traditional, like grace notes, but I've been playing so long that I can probably do anything with matched that you could do with traditional. So I guess to go along with what everyone says, it really doesn't matter. Just pick one and practice a lot. Or pick both. I think you're looking for a simple "pick this" answer when it's really a matter of preference and either will get what you want if you practice enough.
 
Uuuuhhhhhhh........................

thebigcheese said:
I really can't imagine trying to go crazy on the toms with traditional grip, though... if you're not into fast rock beats, then it probably doesn't matter so much. enough.
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Please rethink that again. I'm thinking Louis Bellson, Buddy Rich, Jeff Tain Watts, Neil Peart, Dave Weckl, Steve Smith, Elvin Jones and a few thousand other great drummers. When you are taught a certain way and you are used to that way, it is how you play.
 
Rimshot said:
Please rethink that again. I'm thinking Louis Bellson, Buddy Rich, Jeff Tain Watts, Neil Peart, Dave Weckl, Steve Smith, Elvin Jones and a few thousand other great drummers. When you are taught a certain way and you are used to that way, it is how you play.
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Let me rephrase that then... I PERSONALLY can't imagine trying to go crazy on the toms with traditional grip :)
 
thebigcheese said:
Let me rephrase that then... I PERSONALLY can't imagine trying to go crazy on the toms with traditional grip :)
Click to expand...

The drummers I've watched with traditional all seem to have smaller kits which are closer to the drummer & angled more toward the player (except the snare). It looks so much more relaxed and effortless no matter how fast they play, perhaps the kit needs to be tweeked in terms of positioning for traditional to really work well.
 
_brian_ said:
The drummers I've watched with traditional all seem to have smaller kits which are closer to the drummer & angled more toward the player (except the snare). It looks so much more relaxed and effortless no matter how fast they play, perhaps the kit needs to be tweeked in terms of positioning for traditional to really work well.
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I dunno, that's how I have my kit set up anyway. It always seemed weird to me to have them flat...
 
Angling the drum, especially the snare, lessens the chance of accidentally hitting rim shots. But here is a question to completely #$%! us all up;

Does the drum know which grip you are using and respond differently?​

I play with both grips, and sometimes in the same song. Traditional grip really lessens the chance of hitting rim shots, looks cool, and makes everyone think you were taught old school. Another thing; when playing matched grip, and if you have grip issues, and if you sometimes cramp up while playing hard for extended periods of time, switching to traditional grip seems to aleviate things. At least for your left hand, anyway. I mentioned this to my son, and for whatever reason, he will do this with his right hand as well. Weird. But then I've been trying to get him to play 'thumbs up' for matched grip as well, so I might be overloading him :rolleyes:.
 
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