Which software you use to make audio recording

[windowman]

Boy, I can't believe I actually waded through all 4 pages of this. Can you tell it's a rainy Saturday?

Man, there is soooo much to consider when buying music software. Whether or not you use midi (and frankly, I don't know why anyone with 24+ tracks of audio would need midi unless they just plain can't play, but to each his own), are you using a Mac or Win etc, how many tracks do you need, what can you afford, on and on.

I used to have a studio with a good friend of mine who's a keyboard player and most of the gear was his but now I just record at home for my own enjoyment because I do solo gigs on guitar (I mostly play fingerstyle these days.) I don't need a lot of tracks or midi either one. I mostly just record stereo tracks of myself with one guitar. In most cases 4 pairs of stereo tracks are all I need. I have Cool Edit 2000 w/ the 4-track plug-in which is fine for solo guitar music. It's of course a great wave editor too, if, a little complicated as Dragon has pointed out a few times. I'm used to it though.

I have that little 8-track (that's 8 stereo tracks) version of Cakewalk Guitar Tracks too which comes with a free version of Drag and Drop Drummer. Both are great products and I just recently bought the full version of D&DD with two CDs full of drums and percussion. You can't use midi with this version of Cakewalk or Cool Edit 2000 either but then…I don't need it.

I also recently bought Cakewalk Guitar Studio, a 16-track (mono tracks) multi-track package with a lot of midi bells and whistles. I pretty much never use it and couldn't tell you how. In fact, I dumped it off my computer after one day and went back to Guitar Tracks. I don't sing and don't want vocals anywhere near my music. I have a small synth but seldom use it for anything other than backdrop pads, which anyone could play. Thus, while I do still like to trance-out on the electric now and then, I've always liked to keep the tracking to a minimum (something I always used to go round and round with my keyboard playing studio-partner about), so 8 tracks will usually cover things nicely. Think recording a nice jazz trio at the Village Vanguard and you'll have my recording system down to a tee. The fewer bells and whistles your recording package has, the more stable it will be. I've never crashed either of mine. (500 pen3, 128 ram, 13 gig hd.)

For guys who do TV sound work, I understand that Pro Tools on a Mac is almost a necessity—that ain't me. In fact, if you've got a Mac your choices are rather limited anyway. If you're on Linux…lots-o-luck. For guys who can't play worth a darn and want to just overload a ton of tracks with overly simplistic noodling then they'll certainly need a lot of tracks won't they? It just depends on your needs and your expertise as a musician as well as your pocketbook. That little 8-stereo-track version of Cakewalk Guitar Tracks is wonderfully laid out and only cost $50. Throw in another $50 for Cool Edit (or Sound Forge) and it's all most of us need. Everyone's different though, that's for sure.

 

[Gargamel]

Sonar: Its incredibly easy and you can create your own customized task bar.

 

[AlChuck]

frankly, I don't know why anyone with 24+ tracks of audio would need midi unless they just plain can't play, but to each his own

Wow, what a statement! MIDI offers tremendous benefits beyond the ability to create a sequence without being able to play. You can use it to try out orchestrations, reassign parts to different instruments at will, change keys at will, copy parts from one place to another at will... then print out a decent score at the end... not to mention all the things you can do with MIDI automation of mixing and effects... and MIDI synch... and MIDI machine control...

 

[windowman]

Well you're correct in many ways Al. It's certainly a terrific tool if you score orchestral music. I don't think that's what a lot of people do though. They use it to correct all their mistakes and make them seem to be better musicians than they really are. Don't you think? Man, my best buddy for years and years wanted sooo bad to be in a band. He had a couple of good synths and samplers etc but after several years of owning them he still never really learned to play. He ran a midi package on his Mac and just would work things out a few bars at a time until he got things the way he wanted them. To top it off he asked me to form a band with him at one point. Thing is, he actually wanted to drag all this midi stuff (including his Mac) on stage to play stuff back for him while his brother (drummer) wore headphones to listen to a click track to cue from. It was just maddening! This guy to this day cannot sit down and play a single song (solo) all the way through for you. He simply can't play! I told him, learn to play and then come back and see me.

On a different note....I really think most guys would be much better off to pick a few good synth sounds and make them their staple instead of picking and choosing all kinds of stuff. Think of guys like Pat Metheny, Steve Winwood, and Stevie Wonder. They all have a couple of favorite patches they use and they stick to them. It becomes a signature sound after a while and I think that's a good thing don't you? I mean, you always know that buzzsaw synth sound is Steve Winwood as soon as you hear it on the radio. You don't even have to know the tune. Same with Metheny's hornish sound and Wonder's clavinet. I really like the route those guys chose to go. It gives them more of a certain identity.

 

[AlChuck]

Windowman,

Hmmm, I never had the impression that most people who use MIDI "use it to correct all their mistakes and make them seem to be better musicians than they really are." It is possible to use it that way, but it seems to me that it's so tedious and unsatisfying to piece together a tune "manually" that most people who try this find it's as hard (if not harder) to make music this way, and they bag it or learn to play the keys at least a bit. (I think it's somewhat difficult to have good musical instincts without learning to play an instrument. It's like trying to write a story by picking words out of a dictionary and pasting them...)

On the other hand, MIDI makes it possible for someone who maybe inside is a real artist but is physically unable to play for whatever reason to still be able to achieve the sound in their heads, if they are persistant enough.

The anecdote about your friend is pretty funny... reminds me of a guitar player I once knew with a wealthy relative... always had the latest stuff, the nicest guitars and amps and cool new effects -- and could never play worth shit.

Good point about the signature sounds (Jan Hammer comes to mind too)... might be a good topic for its own thread...

-AlChuck

 

[A Reel Person]

Magix Music Studio 6

- does everything those other titles do, and is not expensive, in the least:

F/I, this week, [10/28/01], Best Buy's selling this title, [24 track DAW software], Magix Music Studio 6,....

- discounted to $19.99, and FREE after mail-in rebate!

---------

It's full blown 24 track DAW software, FREE after rebate, you just can't beat that!

 

[Angie]

I just scanned through the responses on this thread and found no mention of SAW. Are there any SAW users here at all?

I'm using SAW Studio (www.iqsoft.com or www.sawstudio.com).

If you are one seriously considering Pro Tools for no other reason than to say you have it, you'll want to check out SAW Studio.

 

[Alchemist3k]

To Windowman.

Well it really depends. Some people will hate midi and others will love it. I personally like it as it allows sonic possibilties which would actually be not difficult but impossible for even the best players to do in real life. The style of a lot of my own stuff is very much influenced by artists like Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails. I couldn't do my style without midi and while I am not the most amazing player in the world I am pretty good at a few instruments but piano/keyboards aren't one of them so midi helps me along a bit and funnily enough by seeing the note relationships on screen I am sort of teaching myself how to songwrite on a keyboard a bit.

To Angie,

well I have tried the SAW Studio demo and I liked it. It looks really basic but no package was as easy to use and as stable as SAW ( on a side note the iIQS websote says something about colourful "3D rendered interface". What!? I saw no evidence of that. It looks like an MS DOS program!) I mean I didnt even have to look at the manuals to work out how to begin. The only things that put me off buying it are:

1) the price!!!!! WOW is this expensive. It only ways in at 1mb for goodness sake, comes with practically no plug-ins or instruments and yet the top of the range package, which on a like-for-like basis would be equivalent to Cubase VST 32 or Logic Platinum costs well over $1000 US!!!!! eek!

2) not that many people use it so you will be hard pushed to share info on it with other users on the net.

If they could make it a bit cheaper, more widely available in stores rather than just online and included a bit more FX etc in it then I would seriously consider it. As the guy on homerecording.com put it this is "a David that performs like a Goliath".

 

[Angie]

Alchemist3k,

You must have looked at the SAW Pro demo. I don't believe there is a Studio demo available. Big mistake on IQS's part. Instead there is a quicktime presentation on www.sawstudio.com which is worth taking a look at.

You're right about the price tag. If one were seriously thinking of purchasing Pro Tools, though, SAWStudio would be something to look at first. There is a lite version that is more affordable and still gives you quite a lot. Don't let the size of the program (a little larger for Studio) fool you. This is a very well written program, no junk code, no registry hooks involved. And as you pointed out, very stable.

Regarding FX. Again I think you were looking at Pro. How about EQ, compression, gate (with the ability to key in from other tracks)on each of the 72 tracks, plus the ability to patch VST , DirectX and native SAW FX both post and pre fader to each of those tracks. 6 Aux send/returns , I forget how many output assignments , control track and video track.

There may not be too many SAW users on this forum, but you'd be surprised how many of us are out there.

 

[bizarre]

All this midi talk .... biggest advance of midi - you can stress the cpu with other things than running a 24 bit audiotrack, like putting effects on your midi track
my set up
Nuendo for tracking
Reason for drums and some synths
Sound Forge 5 mastering and toying with files ( can you actually say that ??? well - hope you get the idea )
and it all runs on a Pulsar card which I also use for synth's, mastering, effects .... everything ( I do love my pulsar )
bizz

 

[Alchemist3k]

Does the Pulsar just have its own internal synths or does it actually have DSP which takes the strain off the host CPU for things like VST or DXi synths too?

 

[bizarre]

Does the Pulsar just have its own internal synths or does it actually have DSP which takes the strain off the host CPU for things like VST or DXi synths too?

yep - it has it's own DSP - mine is the low budget card - Pulsar one, it has 4 DSP's
bizz

 

[VOXVENDOR]

Pro-Tools LE
Digi 001 Setup
Glyph Project X HD

Windows ME

I have a PIII 1.3G 512 MG RAM 20 GIG internal HD (int HD is not used for any audio though).........

Lotsa Horror stories out there about PT and PC's.... Im happy to say that mine is awesome, and has never cause me ANY problems.....I have been using it for quite some time also...

I attribute this to following all the requirements to the letter.....

Problems start happening when people get cheap and think.... "Well....Maybe it'll run ok on my P75 with a 1 gig HD and 32 MG ram....."
Then they bitch that Pro-tools and PC's sucks..... Go figure eh?

Gotta Follow requirements to the letter, After all they are posted right on the website, and they come in the box on a sheet of paper.......

Just thought I would give my thoughts on the PT system....And this issue has come up before.....

BG

 

[VOXVENDOR]

Pro-Tools LE
Digi 001 Setup
Glyph Project X HD

Windows ME

I have a PIII 1.3G 512 MG RAM 20 GIG internal HD (int HD is not used for any audio though).........

Lotsa Horror stories out there about PT and PC's.... Im happy to say that mine is awesome, and has never cause me ANY problems.....I have been using it for quite some time also...

I attribute this to following all the requirements to the letter.....

Problems start happening when people get cheap and think.... "Well....Maybe it'll run ok on my P75 with a 1 gig HD and 32 MG ram....."
Then they bitch that Pro-tools and PC's sucks..... Go figure eh?

Gotta Follow requirements to the letter, After all they are posted right on the website, and they come in the box on a sheet of paper.......

Just thought I would give my thoughts on the PT system....And these issues have come up before.....

BG

 

[shackrock]

n-track

n-track is the easiest to start with if you're new...and you can get as complicated as you need to get too.

not to mention - thier forum on the webpage has answers to all yor questions...and if you stump them, flavio will surley not be stumped.

 

[Nigie]

Cyan, I was curious about your reply about platinum was a love-hate thing. Here is my story if you have time to read it and Gabriel too....

I started off 12 months ago using a special edition of Logic Audio that came with Isis Maxi Studio. It was very much love hate with lots of hate. Then by accident I stumbled into Acid Style ("Express" now) ie the free version. And within an hour it was love love love. I loved it so much I now have Acid Pro 3 and I loved it beyond my dreams until last week...

I wanted to run more than one recording line into it to record stereo guitar or even four channel guitar... well that's when I became very sad because you can't. Up until last week I'd done my best multitrack recordings on Acid, recording one track at a time - editing is so easy - infact everything is pretty much easy and very precise and speedy and flowing and with very little to get in the way of achieving an outcome which was the opposite of my experience with Logic I'm afraid.

In a couple of weeks I plan to download the 30 day free trial version of SONAR because that looks a bit like Acid with midi editing facility and multiple line in put for recording.

But then I started reading reviews from Logic users who raved about Logic saying it was by far the best program they'd used after trying Cakewalk, Cubase etc. They said Logic was a bastard at first but then became better and better as they learnt how to use it.

I've never used a recent high grade version of Logic and would be very interested in your more detailed view of it. Does it feel like you're fighting with it or flowing with it when you are making your music?

Thanks,

Nigel


By the way Gabriel if you haven't already, you can download Acid Express from www.sonicfoundry.com for free and when it is up and running download some loops from their website through the pull down menu or better still buy or borrow lots more loops and try recording into it as well (I think it records but not sure).

 

[tdukex]

Nigie,

Acid Pro is not designed for multitracking or recording, although it will allow you to record a single track at a time. Acid Pro is a looping program. It is designed to work with your multitracker by enabling you to use tracks made from loops and then dropping them into your tracker to accompany the tracks you have recorded yourself.

Acid Pro is a wonderful program, but if you bought it to use for live multitracking you bought it for the wrong reason. You still need a multitracker like Cubase, Logic, Sonar, N-Tracks.

 

[Nigie]

Because it was your 666th post tdukex I paid particularly grave attention to every word of it! - Thankyou for your reply.

Yes I'm finding out now the shortfallings of the loop program!

It is a shame because in some ways it seems to have advantages over your average multitracker - namely in things like being able to set envelopes, cut up tracks and practically tie them in knots in a fraction of the time of say Logic Audio SE. Recording sounds/tunes and editing them as loops just seems a much more simple and direct way to work with sounds I've found up to this point.

However I think I'm looking for some advice to the contrary of this - ie that multitrack programs are also OK if you persist with them. I may end up using Logic Plat 5 when it comes out next year but before I invest I'd like some assurances from users that it really can work fast and untediously when you learn the levers. (I noticed from the Logic webpage that Plat 5 is getting to look a little more like Acid - maybe there is some healthy cross fertilization going on here!)

Also Sonar looks very much like ACID. So I'll play with the demo soon.

Any responses from people who actually enjoy using Logic or have compared different multitrack programs and have ideas on their strengths and weaknesses would be great.

Nige

PS hope I don't sound too strange for using Acid for multitracking. There is another thing I use it for very successfully also but I'm afraid if I told I'd be banned from discussions for committing a far worse technical heresy!

 

[tdukex]

Nigie, if you can find new ways to use a piece of software then you are exercising your creativity, and that is a good thing.

In addition to using a tracker/sequencer like Logic and a Looping prog like Acid, you might add an audio editor like Sound Forge for tweaking your audio files once they are recorded. You sound like a person who would appreciate an audio editor.

 

[Nigie]

tdukex - can't I keep anything private! You are right Acid Pro and Sound Forge XP work almost seemlessly together and I'm back and forth between the two like a scurrying rat.

My secret was that I use Acid and not SForge to try to premaster. When I say "try" it's because I don't quite have the full version plug ins or monitor speakers I'd like to do the job OK yet.

This may get me banned but I don't see the advantage of premastering in a program like SForge or Cool Edit when you can preview effects more extensively and jump between plug ins much more easily when working in a program like Acid. Once you get all the windows set up right it's a much more workable settup I think.

Thankyou for reply and in future stop doing those spooky character assessments they make me nervous!!!!! (joking)

Nige