Which are high-end professional monitors ?

[fernandoesmaron]

Hugh Robjohns said in his SOS wharfedale pro diamond 8.1 active review:

"Technical faults don't scream out at you as they do on high-end professional monitors, and it is hard work trying to listen into the inner details of a complex mix."

With which monitors it is easy work trying to listen into the inner details of a complex mix ?

I will update this posting later to make a list of those monitors. Which one would you put in this list ?

 

[Hard2Hear]

Alot of times when a reviewer refrences high end monitors, they are talking about Genelic monitors. Some other high end stuff I regularly see in pro studios are the JBL LSR monitors, several models of ADAM speakers, Tannoy Ellipse, and there are others I can't think of right now.

But the monitors most everything tries to compare to are the Genelics. Kind of like how Neumann is in mics.

H2H

 

[Middleman]

Dynaudio, Westlake, custom builds up to 30K. Lot's of em.

Basically the holy grail is uniformity of frequencies across the spectrum so that even the smallest of details can be heard.

 

[Hard2Hear]

But are those nearfields? If you get into mid-field and long throw speakers like used in mastering houses, you get into a whole other ball of wax. Most mastering places have speakers built for a particular room.

A flat response is very important in nearfields. But more important is undertanding whatever speakers you are monitoring on. I disregard most monitor reviews because it really takes time, and placement in your individual room, with lots of listening to understand whatever speakers you are working with. If you walk into a new room with the best speakers made and make a mix right away, it probably won't sound as good as a mix on a cheaper set of speakers that you've been using for 3 years. The most important part of mixing is knowing what you're hearing. And alot of that comes with being familiar with your speakers.

H2H

 

[Middleman]

If you read the article, the high end monitors he is referring to don't sound like nearfeilds to me. He uses the term "high end" as a point of reference. That indicates to me he is talking about details in monitors out of this price point. Although, only the author knows for sure.

 

[fernandoesmaron]

So are there no active monitors under 1000 €/$ which will do this ?

I mean adam´s cheapest active costs 1300 €/$, Genelecs 1030A also 1300.
Dynaudio BM6A at the same price (+-).

What i don´t understand is, why SOS don´t mention this aspect that much in their other Budget Monitor reviews ? As Example in the KRK RP5 review ? Are the KRK RP series or the Tapco´s then High-end ?

Or the well known M-audio Bx5´s`?

It´s also interesting that Barry Rudolph did review the hi-fi 8.1´s in dec.2002 and says the opposite ( read here )

"Mixing music on the 8.1s was fine, especially at lower volumes. My vocal/lead instrument mix levels came out just right, and I could play the 8.1s much louder than the Tannoys or NS-10Ms. The 8.1s were as analytical as any small speaker I would mix on: Recording problems like sibilance, boominess or distortions were not disguised and I didn't feel like I was getting a “hyped” version of my mix. And during my days with them, I felt the least amount of ear fatigue with the 8.1s."

 

[Middleman]

From what I have listened to, I would say a high end sound starts around $1500. The image is extremely accurate, focused and usually rich on the low end. However, the bass end is not always clear in this price range. The midrange usually gets more detailed as you move up to the $2500 range and the high end becomes very, very detailed. This on minimally 8 inch speakers. You also get a large sound stage L to R and depth in the mix.

Below this level you are dealing with monitors that may be very accurate but only in a very specific range, like say the BX5s which are very accurate in the midrange but lacking in the low end and are a bit grainy on the high end above 10K. The soundstage is much smaller and the depth can be totally absent.

This guy is probably a gear snob who gets to used the high stuff regularly but had to review a low range speaker, thus his comment.

High end monitors take you to high translation levels and limit second guessing or the excessive need to play your mix on many different systems. That said, most studios have NS-10s or a boom box for referencing. I personally believe the Wharfdales and a sub, along with a boombox and a quick check on your car stereo will put you in the ball park. I have not heard them but they get rave reviews all over the internet.

 

[fernandoesmaron]

very good posting middleman. I think you are right. I am using the 8.2 actives and want to buy another monitor in 1 or 2 months. Can spend then around 1000 € - 1500 € and want to buy the best then. In german forums i did read always about the adam p11 but did hear them not too long and not in A/B with another.

it´s interesting what i did read a time ago at the rainrecords site about the active wharfedales. If i think so i don´t need other much more expensive monitors. RainRecording.com writes:

"- These are the truest sounding studio monitors we have heard for under $3,000
- Clear, crisp response at all frequencies "

& those at this page:

"Rain Recording Labs uses the Active BI-AMP Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 series in all our test studios and they are nothing short of a revolution in audio."

I did asked them after reading that and get that answer ( did buy my active wharfi´s than later ): "The Wharfedale 8.2s are the way to go! They are better sounding than some $3,000 speakers we have heard. Actives are definitely the preferred solution in our circle or technicians.

Even if I have $1000 I would still buy the Wharfedales."

 

[xstatic]

Those are some pretty broad statements. It is important to remember that we all listen and hear things differently. What I love about one set of monitors may actually be what you hate about them and vice versa. I have no doubt in my mind that the Wharfedales are a smokin little box for the price. To say that they sound better than a $3000 set is way to broad of a statement and a real leap. How do we know fir sure that those people ever actually heard a $3000 set? What were they listening to on that set? Hopefully you see what I am getting at. In the end, it is possible to do a great mix on a boom box if you really know what you are doing. It is just as possible to screw up a mix on a set of ADAM s3a's if you don't. It is all very subjective. In the end, everyone and everything is different. I am certainly not going to dump my Dynaudio's and run out and buy a set of Wharfedales to replace them. I may however add a set of Wharfedales next to my Dynaudio's once I get my JBL 4311's hung and have some space. Variety is one of the things that makes a lot of the bigger studios so nice. Having a good variety of quality and/or useful tools available.

 

[fernandoesmaron]

you are right xstatic.

which Dynaudios do you use ?
"Is it EASY work trying to listen into the inner details of a complex mix." with your dynaudios ?

Did you or someone else hear or use Event ASP6 or 8 ?

As i said before i want to use a second pair of monitors and could buy them for 1000 - 1500 €.

 

[xstatic]

I am using the BM-15 passives. I have heard the new Event ASP series several times now. Personally, I like my Dynaudio's much better (thats why I haven't sold them to buy something else). I have to say though that the Event ASP's felt much better than all of the other Events (whcih I really do not like much). I used to own the BM-6's as well. The low end on them is really impressive for a small monitor, but placement seems to be more critical with them than with the BM-15's. If you put the 6's in a bad place they seem to lose the ultra low stuff. The BM-15's seem to be a littl more forgiving with stuff like that. I love the detail, beautiful width, and usable lows down to about 70hz without a sub.

 

[ROblows]

ADAM. Yum. Short of that, B6A's are nice.

 

[Middleman]

I am using the BM-15 passives. I have heard the new Event ASP series several times now. Personally, I like my Dynaudio's much better (thats why I haven't sold them to buy something else). I have to say though that the Event ASP's felt much better than all of the other Events (whcih I really do not like much). I used to own the BM-6's as well. The low end on them is really impressive for a small monitor, but placement seems to be more critical with them than with the BM-15's. If you put the 6's in a bad place they seem to lose the ultra low stuff. The BM-15's seem to be a littl more forgiving with stuff like that. I love the detail, beautiful width, and usable lows down to about 70hz without a sub.

Not going to bite. Have a nice day.

 

[xstatic]

It's OK Middleman. I can respect the fact that your opinion may differ from mine. Mine isn't "right", it's just "mine" I say go ahead and post what you are thinking. I think it's important for people making decisions to hear all sides of the story and to hear differing opinions. I think it makes decisions a little more "educated".

 

[fernandoesmaron]

I am using the BM-15 passives. I have heard the new Event ASP series several times now. Personally, I like my Dynaudio's much better (thats why I haven't sold them to buy something else). I have to say though that the Event ASP's felt much better than all of the other Events (whcih I really do not like much). I used to own the BM-6's as well. The low end on them is really impressive for a small monitor, but placement seems to be more critical with them than with the BM-15's. If you put the 6's in a bad place they seem to lose the ultra low stuff. The BM-15's seem to be a littl more forgiving with stuff like that. I love the detail, beautiful width, and usable lows down to about 70hz without a sub.

thank you xstatic. Could you explain the differences between the old events and the asp´s a little bit more ? would be helpfull for me.

Which amp do you use with BM-15 passives ?

 

[MadAudio]

I personally believe the Wharfdales and a sub, along with a boombox and a quick check on your car stereo will put you in the ball park.

Agreed. I have the 8.2 actives and a KRK RP-10 sub and my mixes have never sounded better. And this after years of monitoring on NS-10s (which I still use as a reference).

 

[xstatic]

The older Events just had a dull lifeless sound to me. The mid lows weren't pronounced, but didn't really have enough definition for my taste, a little muddy. The highs were kind of harsh, and at the same time didn't seem to have much extension. The newer ASP's in my opinion are much much better. The seem to give a nicer image, and all around the whole frequency spectrum seem to sound more natural. I still prefer my Dynaudio's, but the newer Event ASP series is certainly a fair priced monitor worthy of some attention.

As far as an amp goes, I am using an old QSC convection cooled amp for my Dyn's until I break down and buy a Bryston 4B. I am using a Crown D300 on my JBL's, but I really don't like the sound of the JBL's much. Luckily they only cost me $36 for the pair of JBL 4311's. They look good though. I could easily have spent that much money on a wall decoration, and what better decoration for a studio than a pair of big JBL midfields

 

[fernandoesmaron]

xstatic thank you

Did hear the tr5 last year and find them really not bad for their price. Will hear their new range then too and your infos especially about the dynaudios are helpfull. Couldn´t hear one untill now so i have to look where i could do this. I think it will be a comparison between adam p11 and dynaudio bm6a cause i have no studio amp ( only an sherwood receiver with an tone direct function ). Use this with old Big Grundig boxes to check my mixes sometimes after generally working with my active wharfedales on.

 

[ragata]

Hugh Robjohns said in his SOS wharfedale pro diamond 8.1 active review:

"Technical faults don't scream out at you as they do on high-end professional monitors, and it is hard work trying to listen into the inner details of a complex mix."

With which monitors it is easy work trying to listen into the inner details of a complex mix ?

I will update this posting later to make a list of those monitors. Which one would you put in this list ?

That seems to be fairly individual. However, ATC monitors are highly regarded pretty much everywhere (and pricy too), as far as I know.
I've listened quite alot to a smaller pair of ATC's and was very impressed.

 

[xstatic]

ATC monitors are certainly nice monitors. I think the reason you don't hear more about them is the hefty price tag.

As far as Dynaudio's go, you can get a pair of BM15's and a Bryston amp for less than the price of the BM6a's if you look carefully for a good deal on the Bryston. That gets you better monitors (in my opinion) and a better power amp than you will find in any sub $4000 monitors (approximately).