When should I master??? please help
- Thread starter xBodix
- Start date
sonusman
Banned
Re: Sonusman endorsed...
Indeed he is expensive. *Endorse* might be a strong word. He DOES however have a VERY competent mastering setup in a very well tuned room. Like with ANY mastering engineer, your results are going to depend upon:
1 - How well your material was mixed. This guy sent me a client once because he had to truthfully tell them that "mastering" their stuff would be a waste of time with the way it sounded. We wound up retracking all the guitars and vocals and remixing the project.
2 - How much TIME you can afford. Mastering takes TIME to do well. If you think you can get a great mastering job done in 2 hours for 20 songs, well, you don't know what they process requires and will be VERY disappointed in the outcome.
3 - How much VISION for the final product EVERYBODY involved has. You and the mastering engineer need to have an idea of how far you want to take things, and an idea of WHAT the audio needs. This is GRAY AREA STUFF! You might not agree with the mastering engineer on what needs to be done, and how much of what. The less experience you have, the more you are apt to either want something that is really crazy, or give in too much to possibly a bad idea the mastering engineer has.
He sure has a great setup though eh? Ryan Foster, the lead engineer is a nice guy too. Easy enough to work with.
Eddie
zip said:
Indeed he is expensive. *Endorse* might be a strong word. He DOES however have a VERY competent mastering setup in a very well tuned room. Like with ANY mastering engineer, your results are going to depend upon:
1 - How well your material was mixed. This guy sent me a client once because he had to truthfully tell them that "mastering" their stuff would be a waste of time with the way it sounded. We wound up retracking all the guitars and vocals and remixing the project.
2 - How much TIME you can afford. Mastering takes TIME to do well. If you think you can get a great mastering job done in 2 hours for 20 songs, well, you don't know what they process requires and will be VERY disappointed in the outcome.
3 - How much VISION for the final product EVERYBODY involved has. You and the mastering engineer need to have an idea of how far you want to take things, and an idea of WHAT the audio needs. This is GRAY AREA STUFF! You might not agree with the mastering engineer on what needs to be done, and how much of what. The less experience you have, the more you are apt to either want something that is really crazy, or give in too much to possibly a bad idea the mastering engineer has.
He sure has a great setup though eh? Ryan Foster, the lead engineer is a nice guy too. Easy enough to work with.
Eddie
UberGawkman
New member
You're ready for mastering when Sjoko2 is ready to take on another $200 mastering job.... 
zip
New member
Ok...maybe not endorsed....
....how about recommended in a positive light?!?
And yeah...he has a fantastic setup!! Hell - I'd settle for just his Genelecs right now.... lol
Or the Cranesong or............
BTW Ed....I spoke with Event. They are going to repair or replace my monitor.
Maybe after a year or so they will go out again and I can git dem Genelecs....
lata...
zip >>
....how about recommended in a positive light?!?
And yeah...he has a fantastic setup!! Hell - I'd settle for just his Genelecs right now.... lol
Or the Cranesong or............
BTW Ed....I spoke with Event. They are going to repair or replace my monitor.
Maybe after a year or so they will go out again and I can git dem Genelecs....
lata...
zip >>
Hey, can somebody please tell me where to buy the Qmetric plug-in? I couldn't find it on the Steinberg website.
How's the TL Audio EQ-1 plug-in compared to the Qmetric?
How's the TL Audio EQ-1 plug-in compared to the Qmetric?
Last edited:
mastering
Hummm I use T-racks almost all the time. I have mastered music that has been on national radio and mastered CD's for bands on heavy indie labels.
I also know someone who uses T-racks in his studio and Masters for some big nashville bands. A couple if his mastering jobs has gone platinum.
But I guess because T-racks doesn't cost 800 dollars it must not be as good as the expensive stuff.
Listen Mastering is just the gloss it is not suposed to save a mix. I don't care what you use. If you don't like T-racks, fine but don't say it sucks because you don't use it. Like I said I knoe of people using that are selling more records that all of us ever will put together.
Download all the products, try them for yourself and YOU be the judge.
Jason
Hummm I use T-racks almost all the time. I have mastered music that has been on national radio and mastered CD's for bands on heavy indie labels.
I also know someone who uses T-racks in his studio and Masters for some big nashville bands. A couple if his mastering jobs has gone platinum.
But I guess because T-racks doesn't cost 800 dollars it must not be as good as the expensive stuff.
Listen Mastering is just the gloss it is not suposed to save a mix. I don't care what you use. If you don't like T-racks, fine but don't say it sucks because you don't use it. Like I said I knoe of people using that are selling more records that all of us ever will put together.
Download all the products, try them for yourself and YOU be the judge.
Jason
Re: mastering
Ok, I did that: downloaded T-Racks, tried it for myself and AM the judge: Man, it sucks *%@$ bad compared to Wavelab or Soundforge
C'mon, you're joking, right? I for instance SUCK at joking ... almost as bad as T-Racks at mastering. Now, are you trying to "beat" me?
Look, T-Racks does one or two things right (like a couple of people here have already pointed out. 1) ok EQs and 2) nice tubes ... but at $300 it's hugely overpriced. It's like a nice plug-in to have ... but it's not a real "program" (I dare say).
They're already releasing a plug-in version for Pro-Tools. Just wait another 6 months and you'll have it as a VST plug, too.
Wavelab is a big program that consist of many little useful pieces (i.e. features, plug-ins, ...) .... T-racks is one little plug-in. If you paid $300 for the latter instead of chimping in another $100 for Wavelab 4 (hell, you could get Wavelab 3 for less than $300), then I'm sorry to say you've been ripped off. My sympathy goes out to you, your masternig friend and all those radio-junkies who had to listen to your mixes ...
Peace
jwnc said:
Ok, I did that: downloaded T-Racks, tried it for myself and AM the judge: Man, it sucks *%@$ bad compared to Wavelab or Soundforge
C'mon, you're joking, right? I for instance SUCK at joking ... almost as bad as T-Racks at mastering. Now, are you trying to "beat" me?
Look, T-Racks does one or two things right (like a couple of people here have already pointed out. 1) ok EQs and 2) nice tubes ... but at $300 it's hugely overpriced. It's like a nice plug-in to have ... but it's not a real "program" (I dare say).
They're already releasing a plug-in version for Pro-Tools. Just wait another 6 months and you'll have it as a VST plug, too.
Wavelab is a big program that consist of many little useful pieces (i.e. features, plug-ins, ...) .... T-racks is one little plug-in. If you paid $300 for the latter instead of chimping in another $100 for Wavelab 4 (hell, you could get Wavelab 3 for less than $300), then I'm sorry to say you've been ripped off. My sympathy goes out to you, your masternig friend and all those radio-junkies who had to listen to your mixes ...
Peace
Mastering
T-racks was design for tube emulation mastering, not to be a full editing program with everything under the sun in it.
Also, T-racks is not a plug in, it is a stand alone master suite. The new RTAS is the plug in.
haha...I love the brillant display of audio sobbery that seems to be here. Don't feel sorry for me, my mixes are great, and my clients and radio personal feel the same way.
We just have a difference of opinion thats all.
jason
T-racks was design for tube emulation mastering, not to be a full editing program with everything under the sun in it.
Also, T-racks is not a plug in, it is a stand alone master suite. The new RTAS is the plug in.
haha...I love the brillant display of audio sobbery that seems to be here. Don't feel sorry for me, my mixes are great, and my clients and radio personal feel the same way.
We just have a difference of opinion thats all.
jason
LongWaveStudio
New member
T-Racks is hardly what id call mastering. it's some gimmick.
a mastering program should be able to control things like fade outs, analysis tools, editing, etc etc in it. t-racks is what id call an EFFECTS program, DEFINITELY NOT A MASTERING PROGRAM!!
i tested it for awhile and it basically ruined most of the stuff i put through. it doesn't really emulate a "tube" sound very well.
ive said this time and time again, the only semi-decent thing about it is the eq, but i still wish for a few more options with it.
personally, i woudln't pay someone a hell of a lot of money per hour for him to sit there using t-racks. it's an easy way out, offering hardly any flexibility, one compressor , one limiter, one eq, one tone. what do you do if you want to automate a few bands of eq in the chorus??
you cant.
a mastering program should be able to control things like fade outs, analysis tools, editing, etc etc in it. t-racks is what id call an EFFECTS program, DEFINITELY NOT A MASTERING PROGRAM!!
i tested it for awhile and it basically ruined most of the stuff i put through. it doesn't really emulate a "tube" sound very well.
ive said this time and time again, the only semi-decent thing about it is the eq, but i still wish for a few more options with it.
personally, i woudln't pay someone a hell of a lot of money per hour for him to sit there using t-racks. it's an easy way out, offering hardly any flexibility, one compressor , one limiter, one eq, one tone. what do you do if you want to automate a few bands of eq in the chorus??
you cant.
Mastering
T-racks does have fade in-out control, and it comes with the best analysis tool out there...its called your Ears!
>>a mastering program should be able to control things like fade outs, analysis tools, editing, etc etc in it. t-racks is what id call an EFFECTS program, DEFINITELY NOT A MASTERING PROGRAM!!
So your saying because you didn't spend time with it and thousands of other have gotten great results that its the program? It's funny to me that every major music magazine out there has given T-racks 4 Stars or more...so all thoses professionals must be wrong. I mean hey this is the Home Recording website you know..all the pros hang out here.
>>i tested it for awhile and it basically ruined most of the stuff i put through. it doesn't really emulate a "tube" sound very well.
Have you ever used tube outboard gear? Probably not so how would you know how it sounded? It seems like you just dont get the picture...who cares what someone uses as long as they get the final result. Sounds like to me you are care more about what they used then the quality of the audio. Why do you need more than 1 eq, 1 compressor, and 1 limiter? No mastering software out there is supposed to save bad mixes, its all about icing on the cake, not miricle working.
Why don't you read the manual about how to use it..because you can do all the things you talked about with it. How about using more than 10 minutes to understand how to use it.
>>personally, i woudln't pay someone a hell of a lot of money per hour for him to sit there using t-racks. it's an easy way out, offering hardly any flexibility, one compressor , one limiter, one eq, one tone. what do you do if you want to automate a few bands of eq in the chorus??
Jason
T-racks does have fade in-out control, and it comes with the best analysis tool out there...its called your Ears!
>>a mastering program should be able to control things like fade outs, analysis tools, editing, etc etc in it. t-racks is what id call an EFFECTS program, DEFINITELY NOT A MASTERING PROGRAM!!
So your saying because you didn't spend time with it and thousands of other have gotten great results that its the program? It's funny to me that every major music magazine out there has given T-racks 4 Stars or more...so all thoses professionals must be wrong. I mean hey this is the Home Recording website you know..all the pros hang out here.
>>i tested it for awhile and it basically ruined most of the stuff i put through. it doesn't really emulate a "tube" sound very well.
Have you ever used tube outboard gear? Probably not so how would you know how it sounded? It seems like you just dont get the picture...who cares what someone uses as long as they get the final result. Sounds like to me you are care more about what they used then the quality of the audio. Why do you need more than 1 eq, 1 compressor, and 1 limiter? No mastering software out there is supposed to save bad mixes, its all about icing on the cake, not miricle working.
Why don't you read the manual about how to use it..because you can do all the things you talked about with it. How about using more than 10 minutes to understand how to use it.
>>personally, i woudln't pay someone a hell of a lot of money per hour for him to sit there using t-racks. it's an easy way out, offering hardly any flexibility, one compressor , one limiter, one eq, one tone. what do you do if you want to automate a few bands of eq in the chorus??
Jason
zip
New member
Jason...
If you are sold on the results cool but LWS makes some VERY valid points. You will get the same tone on everything you process because you are using the SAME compressor / limiter on everything you do.
Each software compressor / limiter has a characteristic coloring it will add to sound...some more - some less. The SonicTimeWorks mastering compressor for example is very transparent...
...but what if you don't WANT transparent? With a program like waves or Logic you can CHOOSE what tools you want to use to achieve the desired outcome. I've got about 6 different compressor / limiters to choose from and some when applied to a mix will just suck the life right out of the track.
I believe the point being made is flexibility - plus...
When you "master" a track which has waveform editing functions you are inherently more powerful and flexible. What if you have certain transients which intermittently spike? With this type of editor you can simply go in and manually erase or modify them. You just can't do that with Ozone or T-Racks.
As far as "pros" and "mastering" are concerned - the types of programs and tools (waves,Logic,SoundForge, CoolEdit, High end plugs) we are talking about will get you a good result and maybe even a great result in the right hands - but they are NOT the ONLY tools a true mastering engineer will use. The programs and hardware they use may or may not include some of these but one thing is for certain...
They will have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of stuff at their disposal. Monitoring systems alone will exceed the cost of ALL our project studio's (not combined - singular)...
The position some of use are taking is perfectly valid. If you are looking to master your own stuff using even high end programs the flexibility is ESSENTIAL. I'm sorry - no disrespect - but the "inthebox" programs just don't have it.
peace...
zip >>
If you are sold on the results cool but LWS makes some VERY valid points. You will get the same tone on everything you process because you are using the SAME compressor / limiter on everything you do.
Each software compressor / limiter has a characteristic coloring it will add to sound...some more - some less. The SonicTimeWorks mastering compressor for example is very transparent...
...but what if you don't WANT transparent? With a program like waves or Logic you can CHOOSE what tools you want to use to achieve the desired outcome. I've got about 6 different compressor / limiters to choose from and some when applied to a mix will just suck the life right out of the track.
I believe the point being made is flexibility - plus...
When you "master" a track which has waveform editing functions you are inherently more powerful and flexible. What if you have certain transients which intermittently spike? With this type of editor you can simply go in and manually erase or modify them. You just can't do that with Ozone or T-Racks.
As far as "pros" and "mastering" are concerned - the types of programs and tools (waves,Logic,SoundForge, CoolEdit, High end plugs) we are talking about will get you a good result and maybe even a great result in the right hands - but they are NOT the ONLY tools a true mastering engineer will use. The programs and hardware they use may or may not include some of these but one thing is for certain...
They will have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of stuff at their disposal. Monitoring systems alone will exceed the cost of ALL our project studio's (not combined - singular)...
The position some of use are taking is perfectly valid. If you are looking to master your own stuff using even high end programs the flexibility is ESSENTIAL. I'm sorry - no disrespect - but the "inthebox" programs just don't have it.
peace...
zip >>
Re: Mastering
Jwnc,
I'm not sure you've actually read this thread - or you would know the fade in-out control issue has already been sufficiently covered. So, take a deep breath, calm down and go start reading ....
So, the best analysis tool T-Racks has to offer are "my ears"? Last time I checked even a BigMac came with "my ears". But McDonalds didn't charge $300 for that.
So, this is homerecording and according to your logic only "ignorant" amateurs come here, right? .... well, we're glad you finally joined the club.
You've got a charming way of making your debut on this forum. Before you start telling everyone how little they know about music, I suggest you actually take some time and find out who you're talking to on this forum. You might be surprised.
Jwnc,
I'm not sure you've actually read this thread - or you would know the fade in-out control issue has already been sufficiently covered. So, take a deep breath, calm down and go start reading ....
So, the best analysis tool T-Racks has to offer are "my ears"? Last time I checked even a BigMac came with "my ears". But McDonalds didn't charge $300 for that.
So, this is homerecording and according to your logic only "ignorant" amateurs come here, right? .... well, we're glad you finally joined the club.
You've got a charming way of making your debut on this forum. Before you start telling everyone how little they know about music, I suggest you actually take some time and find out who you're talking to on this forum. You might be surprised.
atomictoyz
New member
Can anyone actually give me a list of artists whose music was mastered using T-Racks? If its a Platinum record, I should be able to track down who was involved in making it, right down to the Mastering Engineer. See, people can say what they want on a bbs, but it doesn't have to be true for people to believe it. Hearing is believing in the world of Audio Engineering.
Peace,
Dennis
Peace,
Dennis
LongWaveStudio
New member
Re: Mastering
hehe, look, if you're asking that question, you shouldn't even be involved with mastering.
zip, you pretty much said what i wanted to say really.
jwnc, can you draw fade outs with T-Racks?
and, i did spend more than 10 minutes using it. A UK sales company wanted to know if i wanted it so I was sent it to play with for a while. it went back the next week.
in the correct hands, wavelab/soundforge and a few good plug ins would be a MUCH better investment that wasting money on t-racks.
a professional mastering job will 9 times out of 10 use REAL valve outboard, not bad emulation software packages. main reason..if you're sitting in your studio listening to the unmastered version, and you suddenly hear valve eq's or compression in your head, are you really going to go to $300 emulation which isn't even good?
Jwnc:
hehe, yes mate, i have used valve gear
very frequently.
in a typical mastering studio, they'll have gear you wouldn't have even seen before. in the pro enviroment, T-Racks is typically replaced by SADiE. not always, but in most cases. i know a few people including myself who use Nuendo or Pro Tools for mastering. now that's also high quality system if you have it spec'd right.
Jwnc:
well, i dont know where you got that statistic from, but i dont think that means thousands of people who master. i think that means thousands of people whojust want to make their tracks sound louder and chop of some bass. cus that's all you can really do with that program.
Saturday morning i was mastering a band called Feenix. the track was 5:40ish long and we had to bring it down to around 4:00 for a radio edit, something i am regularly doing. and i wanted to bring the mids out a touch at a vocal break. now, i did this in Nuendo with no problems. i could even do it all realtime if i wanted to. now, lets look at T-racks which you claim is a mastering program. how would i edit this track in t-racks?
it's fine as an introduction to the final stage of mastering, but to be honest, there's a little bit more than adding the same compressor, limiter and eq to the track. you obviously haven't used enough equipment to understand the colours and transparency of different compressors, be it outboard or software.
sorry about the long post.i think ive made my opinion clear though!
jwnc said:
hehe, look, if you're asking that question, you shouldn't even be involved with mastering.
zip, you pretty much said what i wanted to say really.
jwnc, can you draw fade outs with T-Racks?
and, i did spend more than 10 minutes using it. A UK sales company wanted to know if i wanted it so I was sent it to play with for a while. it went back the next week.
in the correct hands, wavelab/soundforge and a few good plug ins would be a MUCH better investment that wasting money on t-racks.
a professional mastering job will 9 times out of 10 use REAL valve outboard, not bad emulation software packages. main reason..if you're sitting in your studio listening to the unmastered version, and you suddenly hear valve eq's or compression in your head, are you really going to go to $300 emulation which isn't even good?
Jwnc:
hehe, yes mate, i have used valve gear
very frequently.in a typical mastering studio, they'll have gear you wouldn't have even seen before. in the pro enviroment, T-Racks is typically replaced by SADiE. not always, but in most cases. i know a few people including myself who use Nuendo or Pro Tools for mastering. now that's also high quality system if you have it spec'd right.
Jwnc:
well, i dont know where you got that statistic from, but i dont think that means thousands of people who master. i think that means thousands of people whojust want to make their tracks sound louder and chop of some bass. cus that's all you can really do with that program.
Saturday morning i was mastering a band called Feenix. the track was 5:40ish long and we had to bring it down to around 4:00 for a radio edit, something i am regularly doing. and i wanted to bring the mids out a touch at a vocal break. now, i did this in Nuendo with no problems. i could even do it all realtime if i wanted to. now, lets look at T-racks which you claim is a mastering program. how would i edit this track in t-racks?
it's fine as an introduction to the final stage of mastering, but to be honest, there's a little bit more than adding the same compressor, limiter and eq to the track. you obviously haven't used enough equipment to understand the colours and transparency of different compressors, be it outboard or software.
sorry about the long post.i think ive made my opinion clear though!
zip
New member
You could get a second opinion...
Go here and ask them about mastering with T-Racks...
http://webbd.nls.net:8080/~mastering
I guarantee they will give you an educated opinion.
If you REALLY want to know.
Go here and ask them about mastering with T-Racks...
http://webbd.nls.net:8080/~mastering
I guarantee they will give you an educated opinion.
If you REALLY want to know.
atomictoyz
New member
Are you typing at me Zip?
Ive been there and Im not sure it would be healthy for anyone to ask even the remotest question about DIY mastering, let alone T-Racks in that BBS. Well I might as well ask someone there at my own risk of being banned.
Anyone else a member at the Mastering Engineers Weboard?
Peace,
Dennis
Ive been there and Im not sure it would be healthy for anyone to ask even the remotest question about DIY mastering, let alone T-Racks in that BBS. Well I might as well ask someone there at my own risk of being banned.
Anyone else a member at the Mastering Engineers Weboard?
Peace,
Dennis
mastering
Everyone, I didn't mean to sound like I am some great mastering engineer I was just voicing my opinion. I was not saying that everyone here is an amatuer. I apologize about that.
I was just giving my personal view about what I use.
At this point it's kinda pointless to keep talking about this. Let's just write music and do our own thing.
Jason
Everyone, I didn't mean to sound like I am some great mastering engineer I was just voicing my opinion. I was not saying that everyone here is an amatuer. I apologize about that.
I was just giving my personal view about what I use.
At this point it's kinda pointless to keep talking about this. Let's just write music and do our own thing.
Jason
LongWaveStudio
New member
well you did start it dude! you came across pretty hard.
so who's this producer who used it then?
so who's this producer who used it then?
