What's my best next purchase?

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cincy_kid

cincy_kid

Active member
Well, wasn't sure where to post this one so I chose the Newbies Hall since I am King Newb :)

Ok, for those who havent seen any of my other threads, I am just starting out and my goal is to lay down some vocals and acoustic / electric guitar tracks and get some decent sounding recordings.

- I have a decent computer (AMD Athalon, 512 or 1g RAM I forget and like 40g HD)

- I will be using ACID and / or Adobe Audition for software

- I have crappy (discontinued it seems) soundcard: M-Audio USB Quattro

- An equally crappy cheap mixer: Behringer Eurorack UB802

- I have a Shure 57 to mic my Johnson Amp

- I am buying my first condenser mic this weekend: SP B-1


So, with that current gear in mind, my question is what I should buy next? Originally I was going to buy this: Studio Projects VTB-1 , since the only preamp I have is the IMP (Invisible Mic Preamp) in the mixer as well as phantom power.

But I want to ask your opinions. Would it help my sound quality out more to upgrade the soundcard and/or mixer first? Or still buy the preamp next? Which of the 3 would be a better improvement for me (soundcard, mixer, preamp)? Or is there something I havent named that is even more important? :D

Thanks in advance!
 
I have a Yorkville Elite EX351M Wedge. (decent quality I think I paid $800 about 6 yrs ago)

I used in when I was front man in my old band. I guess it will suffice when I need to use it hehe. I am thinking more for recording quality for now.

Any other advice?
 
Man you are kind newb arn't you? :D

When he said monitors he meant speakers that you use to listen to your music. These have a flat resoponce so therfore give you the most acurate sounding output of your recording.

If you havn't yet read it and no longer want to be "king newb" try reading from www.tweakheadz.com/guide


Note: I hope i didn't miss interprate your 2nd reply and if I did I am sorry :)
 
I will still claim the "King Newb" title, however, the monitor I mentioned (Yorkville) is classified as a speaker isnt it? You can play anything through it.

I will read the thread you posted, thanks for that.

I am still looking at advice though on my original post. Buy a preamp, upgrade soundcard or upgrade mixer? Which would be next best thing to buy for my needs?
 
cincy_kid said:
I will still claim the "King Newb" title, however, the monitor I mentioned (Yorkville) is classified as a speaker isnt it? You can play anything through it.

I will read the thread you posted, thanks for that.

I am still looking at advice though on my original post. Buy a preamp, upgrade soundcard or upgrade mixer? Which would be next best thing to buy for my needs?
Click to expand...


You was already given an answer. And a good one. You will need a decent pairs of studio monitors. Maybe then, you will be in a better position to HEAR what you need to upgrade next, which will probably be your listening environment.
 
HangDawg said:
You was already given an answer. And a good one. You will need a decent pairs of studio monitors. Maybe then, you will be in a better position to HEAR what you need to upgrade next, which will probably be your listening environment.
Click to expand...

I HEAR you infact after I get some microphones I HEAR that i'm going to get a set of monitors that way I can HEAR my mixes better than I I was to HEAR them through a sorce that is not meant for recorded sound. :D

Get some monitors dude you won't regret it.

ALso sorry for takin the mickyp out of ya it was just too easy :D
 
Well I have been readin that Tweak Guide and some real good info there, but on the subject of monitors, are you saying my Yorkville monitor wont do the trick? It seems the main function of a "near field" monitor is to paint an accurate audio image.

Any reason my Yorkville Elite wont do that?
 
cincy_kid said:
Well I have been readin that Tweak Guide and some real good info there, but on the subject of monitors, are you saying my Yorkville monitor wont do the trick? It seems the main function of a "near field" monitor is to paint an accurate audio image.

Any reason my Yorkville Elite wont do that?
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Yorkville thing you're referring to one of those wedge shaped stage monitors that you put on the floor to hear yourself in a live performance? If so, I'm sure it's great for what it is, but it ain't gonna work for monitoring a mix.

If you'd read the monitoring section of Tweak's guide, you'd know that you need a pair of quality monitor which are reasonably flat across the entire frequency spectrum to hear the mixes properly. Aditionally, they should be oriented in conjunction with your ears in an equilateral triangle setup to enable you to accurately hear the stereo image of the mix. A single stage monitor isn't going to do either of those things.

So, unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by a Yorkville Wedge, then I would agree with the other posters who say you're next purchase should be some decent monitors.
 
Yeh the wedgies certainly wont do the trick cincy. You definitely need studio monitors or some sort. I've heard good things about Behringer truths, and m-audio BX5s, BX8s. They are both reasonably priced, but if you read enough you will probably find ones more suited to you(your budget). You PC seems good enough, and the equipment you have should do you for just now. Certainly get the SP B1, and definitely get a good pair of studio monitors, and with the acoustic treatment mentioned in other threads, you should have quite a nice setup. Ohh get a set of headphones too, nothing fancy(check out behrigner for cheap ones), just so you can record your voice without getting spill from your speakers of your guitar.
 
You have enough ingredients to create a recording. You can also get reasonable (though not brilliant) results with what you have. Even your Yorkville wedge can be put to service.

However, you should heed the advice of the others, and make it a priority to get a pair of studio monitors. There are fairly decent (again, not brilliant) ones at reasonably cheap prices.

After you have got these, don't buy anything.

Instead, get familiar with the process of recording. This familiarity will eventually allow you to make judgements about the weakest links in your signal path: perhaps the mixer is too noisy, or the soundcard is picking up computer noises, or the mike is too squawky.

You will be able to do this because your monitors will reveal the problems.

You can then start addressing the worst problems first.
 
Jeff: Yes, you are correct about the Yorkville and I did read the monitor thing on Tweak but to be honest I skimmed more than read (in that section), so I understand now what you and others mean, thanks again.

Panda: As always thank you for your insight :) I will check out some monitors and I have a few pair of headphones that will be put to good use, hehe.

Gecko: Thank you for the good advice. I often feel like I am doing too much thinking/asking/planning instead of just diving in and playing with things to get some experience under my belt and THEN figuring out what I need/want. When you said "Even your Yorkville wedge can be put to service.", did you mean in place of the monitors until I got some?


Thanks again all for all the replies and help ~
 
Yes . . . I meant exactly that. You can use the wedge for the time being (assuming you have an amp to drive it, or maybe it is a powered wedge). It's only mono, it may not be the best, in fact it may sound appalling, but you never know, it could be ok. But it will give you something to work with for the time being.
 
Ok, so you all convinced me to get monitors next. Also from doing more forum reading I totally agree. So my next question is about poistioning.

I know ideally you want to have an equilatteral triangle situation with the 2 monitors and yourself. Keep in mind my room is VERY small and I need all the space I can get.

In the following 2 diagrams I have 2 scenarios. Of course I think pic 1 seems to be the popular choice, but will something like in pic 2 work?

monitors1.gif


My desk has 2 raised platforms on each side where the monitors could sit perfectly and would give me about ear level for the tweeters.

monitors2.gif



It saves me lots of space if I can get by this way, but If it will be too much of a negative effect then I will deal with it.

Thanks again ~
 
The main issue with putting your monitors on you desk is that you'll get first-order reflections off your desk/console/whateverisonthedesk.
Placing the monitors behind the desk allows you to position them so that you get the direct sound from the monitors, but not the reflection off the desk.
 
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So, even though the monitors have a direct path to my ears (in either diagram), with nothing in the way to block the sound path to my ears, its a problem?

As a matter of fact, if they are on my desk they have a straight path, but if they are in the corner (behind my desk), then the corners of my desk will be in the path. So it seems it would be worse that way.

Any explanation of why that would be wrong?

Thanks ~
 
The signal expands as it gets farther away from the driver. Sitting on top of the desk, while it appears to have a direct path to the listener it also projects off of the desk surface, so you receive the direct path as well as the reflected path. Get some monitor stands and do a bit more reading.
 
I'd upgrade the soundcard and mic first. Getting a preamp and having a mid range sound card won't do much good. Because you'll be going out of your good preamp into your sound card which isn't as good. It's all bout the front end. What I mean is all your harware that goes into the computer. You want to capture the best sound possible. So upgrading the sound card is a must. The monitors are another big issue. But, if you don't get the best sound quality going in, why even mix it or wanna hear it... So, the sound card and monitors go hand in hand. Mic too...
It all depends on what you are doing to. If you are just making beats and not recording, get the moniors...

Get a good M-Audio or Motu card with good quality pres on it.

For a good medium price check out:
You can record 24-bit/96kHz.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Recording/Computer/Hardware?sku=709201

It's not the highest end, but is a step up.

This may be overboard but get this down the road:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Recording/Computer/Hardware?sku=240116

I'd go for firewire interfaces.

YOUR MONITORS WILL BE THE NEXT BIG ISSUE... :eek:
 
Creamy: Thanks for the explanation and I will get stands and always doing reading, hehe.

Beats: I think I will follow the words of gecko and the others. I want to get going doing some recording first before I invest too much money into somethign I am clueless about. Yes, I know my stuff is very low end but it will give me an idea on what I need to upgrade when I start dabbling.

Thanks to both for your replies, I appreciate it.

(Now to convince the wife that these here are a necessity) :D
 
Well, I really have no idea who you are, but if you're from Cinci, you can't be that bad, right? :)

I was gonna say, if you want to get an idea of what the VTB-1 would do for your setup, maybe you can borrow mine in a couple weeks when I go on a business trip. I highly doubt the wife will have much use for it when I'm out of town. Or heck, you could come over to my place sometime to check it out here.

I will echo what everybody else has said about the monitors, though... it's amazing how much an upgrade in monitors reveals about everything else in your signal chain. For several years (after blowing my first real pair of monitors) I mixed on everything... stereo speakers, PA speakers, headphones. I finally got fed up with it and invested in a pair of M-Audio BX8's (not overly expensive, but nice for the $). Then I started noticing all sorts of annoying things in my mixes that were relatively easy to fix. End result: all my recordings sound a lot better! (Don't sweat the details about positioning for starters... worry about finding a decent pair of monitors... or said another way... you've got to learn to crawl before you learn to walk!)

Completely off topic... saw you're using a Johnson amp? Which model? I used a JM150 pretty seriously for a few years and had a JM120 around for a backup. Always liked their amps at the time, and wished they would've stayed in the market.

--B
 
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