What offers the cleanest patching capabilities?

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MISTERQCUE

MISTERQCUE

Not Just Anutha Brutha
Is it XLR or Balanced stereo cables?
A lot of my gear has both XLR and balanced I's and O's.
Is it better to patch with XLR's or balanced cables?
What offers the best s/n ratio?
Thx!
 
XLR's are balanced and they will have the better signal to noise ratio
 
My question basically is whether XLR offers better s/n than a balanced 1/4" cable? Or is it better to use the XLR I's or O's or use the 1/4" balanced I's or O's on my rack-gear?
I'm looking for the lowest s/n using Mogami or Groove Plug (or maybe Monster) cables and whether I should re-configure my hook-up by using the XLR? (presently, I'm using the 1/4"). I want the PRISTINE-EST of signals thru the cables.
 
....just to add 1 last point, a particular small 48track studio is going out of business and is offering me their XLR cables on the cheap (Mostly Mogami and Monster).
Since I use balanced 1/4' (and d@mn I use a LOT!) would be worth me while to take the plunge and re-configure my wiring with XLR's or should I stay with what I already have?
 
Given the choice between the two, XLR wins hands down for fixed (back-of-the-rack) interconnect.

XLRs offer three big advantages over 1/4" TRS connectors. First, the connector itself offers much greater contact area between the male and female pins. This offers greater reliability over the long term, and reduces the chance of crunches, distortion, or signal loss due to oxide in the contact area. 1/4" TRS plugs have very small contact areas between the spring fingers in the jack and the T and R portions of the plug by comparison. Second, they latch in place: always important, even if you think the rack will never get shaken... and third, they do make the ground connection before either of the signal connection at a mate cycle, and break ground last at a demate cycle, not that that matters much for fixed use.

For patchbays (as opposed to fixed interconnect), the only advantages that 1/4" TRS connectors offer is density (and bantams are even better) and long-term *multicycle* reliability (if and only if you buy the expensive telephone-style longframe hardware).

I always use XLRs whenever I can: the chassis mount XLR connectors are vastly more reliable than the cheezo plastic shortframe 1/4" TRS jacks used on most equipment these days.

Time for another skippy story. One other thing that's a habit left over from my misspent youth: I always use Cramolin on all fixed back-of-the-rack interconnect. I'm told that that product has been discontinued, and DeOxit is now the hot setup. Could be... Anyway, I have about a quart of each of the parts (it's a two-part goop)left over from the old studio, and to this very day I religiously clean/deoxidize the plug and jack, and put on a coat of the preservative, before I mate the connector- *especially* if I have no plan to ever touch it again. This is actually pretty important for the fixed interconnect, especially if you use any vintage gear, and *especially* for 1/4" TRS jacks with that tiny contact area. If the environment is anything less than pristine, rot can set in, and after a few years the crunches start. And I _hate_ trying to find a crunch when the talent is in the room, tuned up, and ready to play.

Before you guys rag on me about using an "audiophile product", hear me out. The stuff does make for a somewhat more reliable connection in the long haul, and I have conclusively (and painfully!) proven that to myself in the field. When I was still back in Boston in the late 70s and early 80s, my band did a great many booze cruises: on-deck gigs on cruise boats out in Boston Harbor, basically a floating frat party. If you have any weather at all, you have salt spray coming over the rails- and you gotta believe me when I tell you that the connectors go through _hell_. I had one PA rack where the XLR connectors to the power amps corroded in place, and the entire connector had to be replaced when it came time to change the rig at the end of the summer season. You coudn't have demated those connectors with a freakin' tube-maul.

I was introduced to Cramolin in our second season of booze cruises when we couldn't get a clean signal out of the guitarist's old Bassman 50 for love or money- the corrosion on the connectors was just disgusting. One of the frat-boy attendees on the boat suggested I try the stuff (between heaves over the side, as I recall). What the heck, why not? Back on shore, I found a place to buy some, used it, completely restored it to function, and started going through the whole rig. The crunchies went away, never came back, and I just never have stopped. Shoot, I even Cramolin tube socket pins: that once solved an intermittent crunch in one of the other amps. Once I find something that *works*, I tend to stay with it...

Do you need to do this? Probably not, unless you have salt spray in your room (or live in a coastal area, or one with really high humidity)... Just the same, I claim that a few extra hours of upfront work can yield years more trouble-free operation. This one is my religion, even though it might seem like turd-polishing to many folks. You'll get no argument from me on that topic: I've always been a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy...
 
Electronically, TRS cables and XLR cables are identical. The difference is in the connection area and stability. A TRS cable has very little connection surface area as opposed to an XLR. Just look at the Jack components of a TRS. You have that little clip that presses against the plug. If you cross section that contact you will find that the surface area of that connection is very small.

Now, with an XLR you have the pins sliding into full metal receptacles, and a locking mechanism. If you cross section the connection of an XLR, you will see the surface area of the connection is much greater than that of a TRS.

So, in theory the XLR is a better connector. In practice, there is minimal if any difference. It shouldn't affect your S/N ratio at all.

p.s. I've heard voodoo crap about time alignment differences between XLR and TRS. That TRS has alignment problems because of the physical distance between the hot and cold connections. This is utter horse apples. If you know anything about how signal is passed, you would know that it makes no difference.

p.p.s. It looks like Skippy beat me to the punch!

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
 
Skippy-

I was wondering about using deoxIT and it helping the conductivity and cleaning of cables. I looked into it and found out that the big building down the street that I drive by everyday is their headquarters. It's kind of a small world I guess. www.caig.com is their website.
 
Hey, Tom!

One thing I miss about the olden days in New England was being able to cruise over to dbx and find out what's going on. I remember installing a couple of 3bx expanders in some movie sound systems I worked on. Those did a remarkable job of adding life to older pre-Dolby SMPTE soundtracks, back in the day. Those rooms specialized in presentations of vintage film, and the old variable-area tracks were pretty viciously squeezed. Matter of fact, one of those 3bx trips is how I ended up with my Model 700. I'd give damned near anything to have one of those back in my room: selling that a decade ago was the biggest mistake of all. You guys have any still holding up dust in the back room- or maybe the museum? (;-)

For that matter: is dbx still out there in Newton, or has the operation shifted to SLC?

I too have heard the time-alignment ding on TRS connections. I'm with you: give me a freakin' _break_. However, for every demonstrably bad theory, there are inexplicably still a few knowledgeable people who will back it up- presumably because they don't want to be known as The Guy Who Couldn't Hear It...
 
Skip my man, I truly appreciate the great advice you just provided me! XLR it is!
May your life be filled with happiness and sunshine and lot's mo' gear!
Peace.
Mr.Q

(Now let me go out and jump on this XLR cable deal for some-1 beats me to it!!)
 
Skippy,

The entire dbx operation was moved to S.L.C. about 7 yrs ago. We don't make the model 700 anymore, but you can still get them occassionally on ebay. In fact, we don't make any noise reduction or expander units anymore. There is just not a market for them, the world has moved on (digital). We do have expansion capabilities in the Quantum and DDP, but nothing analog.

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com
 
Sigh. Well, maybe the world has moved on, but...

You can have my collection of old Simplex 12v film-soundhead exciter lamps when you drag them from my cold, dead fingers. (;-) And I will claim to my dying day that the track for an old print of "Steamboat Willie" sounds better through a 3bx...

And Wide Awake: The Cramolin/DeoxIT stuff doesn't do much of anything perceptible on new cables, used in new equipment, for the first couple of years (unless you are in a really degenerate environment, as I was). The real bang for the buck comes in the 3-years-and-on timeframe in most studio environments, and it is subtle. You just don't get as much of the buildup of sizzles, crunches, intermittent annoyances, and frustrations that you do with untreated/unmaintained gear. IMNSHO, it is an investment in the long-term reliability of the overall rig.

For all I know, the reason that it works is psychological: hell, it may be that the gear just decides that you love it for putting in the extra work when you bought it (;-). But for those of you who don't think that upfront planning like this for 3-5 years out is worth the effort: believe me when I tell you that it just happens. Fast. The older I get, the more amazed I am at that fact of life.

"and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you..."
 
Cramolin Spraywash! Hot damn. Well, now- I'm gonna lay some of that in. That's new (to me anyway), and I'll bet it will work better than the regular old CRC defluxer I've been using for cleaning off the spooge that grows behind racks. It'll sure as hell make cleaning patch pays go faster (the next time I need to do that, anyway- I hope I'm beyond buying patch bays at surplus, these days...)

Probably ought to get some fresh cleaner and protector, too. The stuff I have is getting- shall we say- a little *stiff*, down in the bottoms of the bottles. It happens...

Thanks, Bruce! I was trying to remember who had mentioned whether it was still available or not, but I slept since then...
 
Another great informative post, thanx Skippy, Tom, Bruce and Q. Hey Q.... why come you always find these hot deals? Guess da road apple DOES have some merit, miss it ......sometimes!!
 
Excellent question! I'm constantly keeping my ear to the ground listening for any break I can get! I also try and develop a rapport with individuals in the industry and musical retail outfits. I also visit a lot of small studios in and around NYC of which most are either going full digital and are selling off their outboard gear etc.
But the main thing is to develop a friendship with these individuals and network your ass off!
 
.....Better answer! " Is that your final answer?"......*camera dissolves* scene opens Q is sitting (with a brewski) reflecting with Regis on his final answer and how it provided him with 2.2 million $$$..... "now Q what sort of recording gear was that you'd be purchasing?"..... forgive me. over mixed. ears fried. brain fried too. drink beer. sleep.
 
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