What makes a good song?

EARTHQUAKE!!

Hey,
I live in SEattle, and we just had a pretty decent 'quake. 6.8 they are saying. I really thought I might buy the farm today. I was hiding under my desk at work listening to things crashing to the ground all around me and thinking "Crap, now I'll never get to find out what makes a good song!"
Thanks for all the insights. After listening to LI Slim, I think I will have to ad "an emotional element that most people have in common" to my list of good song criteria. Obviously that's why so many songs are about love. But even songs of love can suck.

<<To use my musical skills (such as they are) to truly express myself, and have that really heard and accepted by others.>>

That is EXACTLY how I feel! Sometimes I want it so much it almost aches.
Today, however, it feels great just to be alive. What a great day to write a song!
Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
Yes, I believe a great song often has an element that contains, and transcends, the precise experience of the songwriter.

Here's what I mean. Look at Lennon's career. First he wrote or co-wrote songs that really didn't involve his life at all. Yes, they were great songs, with wonderful hooks, i.e. "I Wanna Hold Your Hand," "I Should Have Known Better," "It's Only Love." But they weren't his best work.

THEN, roundabout the time he wrote "Help," he began writing about his own experiences.

And in his best work his own experiences hit a chord, as it were, with the rest of us. ("Help," "Strawberry Fields Forever," "All You Need is Love," "Imagin," "Jealous Guy" etc. et. al.)

These are songs that touch on loneliness, life purpose, helplessness, the power of love.

But as much as I love Lennon, sometimes he was TOO specific, TOO objective for me to relate to (Ballad of John and Yoko," "Cold Turkey.")

Don't get me wrong - I am a huge fan. But to me the greatest songs are those with a universality.

Finally, of course, one can go too far and write songs that are blandly nonspecific, universal pablum.

So to me the key is balance. Specific details, a scene, a feeling, that lead to greater meaning.


Any thoughts?
 
More Bashing... more negativity

yes yes yes. So I was working this week, daily tuning in to the station that played the most Modern Rock Crap cuz I guess I like to punish myself... anyways i heard Creed three times a day, and tried to listen to it differently. They don't write bad songs. I had this fantasy about being in the studio and being their producer, and constanly saying to the singer, "dude, don't try so hard!" then having to hook him up to a machince where I could give him an electric shock everytime he bellowed needlessly. Man that would be so fun, he'd fry himself! :D

I know that I'm getting off subject, but performace and good songwriting are completly tied, so much is in dilevery. anyways, sorry for the negativity guys, I live to hate cock rock. In so much of rock I hear the same voice over and over agian.... there's "the Vedder", the dude from Creed, Lifehouse, many many others, it's all the same voice. Eddie Vedder dosen't do "the Vedder" any more. It made a few apperances on Vs. and was gone. "The Vedder" is a crutch, it sucks the life out of any performance with it's ineptitude it says "yeeeah.... I am sooooo alternative..... yeah" Then there is "the Staley" unlike "The Vedder"I don't think "The Staley" comes from it's name sake exclusivly, the name is simply how I classify it within the realm of my experience. "The Staley" (from Lane Staley of Alice in Chains) is a little more universal, it relies on layers, it is haunting, doubling tracks and ending many lines with a screaming yelp. It is a little more pained than the Vedder but not as meloncolie, and can sometimes switch onto "The Kurdt" (Kurdt being a funny little psydonym for Curt Cobain) "The Kurdt" is gravely, yet sensitive, it is massive in it's smallness, it can be as entertaining as a funeral. The squeak of "The Kurdt" is becoming rarer and rarer these days, it is as if the "The Kurdt" has become aware of it's self, and is trying to prolong it's shelf life by retreating to obscurity. Or maybe it is hiding from "Angry". "Angry" is everywhere these days. "Angry" is all about yelling and testosterone and screaming and testosterone and mistreating "bitches". "Angry" "raps" too. "Angry" thinks he is on the outside, he is wrong about this and many other things. he is defintly on the inside.

hack hack hack. anyways. I hope you all enjoyed reading this, and you may find it to be somewhat true. It is simply a few obsevations from a guy who reheased "The Vedder" for many years, and then suddenly cursed it, abandoned rock music all together and listendto Jazz and more Jazz and Frank Zappa and lots of questionable "Avant Guard" music. And then almost as suddenly, picked up an acoustic guitar, heartbroken, and found his voice somewhere within it's cheap plywood chambers. I wrote two albums that year. and only one of them sucks.

I talk alot of trash, mainly because I am uninspired, jealous of others success, and am sexually frustrated. BUt all in all, that voice is still in there, and now most of my time (and my money) is spent on my ears. This makes me an ornery young person, who has a lot to say, a little bit to give, and that ocasionally writes a song or two. And really all I can hope for is that two people one day will hear one of my songs and have two completly different reactions. One will love it one will not. That's it.

you are either a hack or an auture, everything inbetween is completly subjective.

-jhe
 
James,

Not exactly a big Creed fan here myself, as I too hate that vocal style, the "Vedder"........I just think that guy writes a hell of a song.....so much emotion and feeling go into the lyrics thats its a shame the music isnt up to par with it....myself, i believe rock music as i knew it died with the "Kurdt".....As pitiful as it sounds, I loved glam rock (BonJovi, Poison, Ratt, Guns n Roses) and even the heavier shit like Metallica, Megadeath, etc....back when it was ok to play a solo....when it was ok to have a vocal melody.....harmony......

But anyway, if I came off harsh, I didnt mean it that way....I wasnt defending the band or the music, just the songwriting.....everything else you pretty much hit the nail on the head......

...oh yeah, hope ya get laid soon......
 
Great Post James HE!!!

You hit it on the head James.
I hated Pearl Jam until he stopped doing the Vedder.
It seems to me the Vedder is an attempt at primal anger, coming from the suburbs where the only anger experienced was your Mom refusing to by you the right sneakers.
Jeff
 
Good songs simply are. If there was a formula then there would be no bad songs.

If you can feel it.. that intangible feeling you get when you hear a great song.. its a great song.

Maybe its to do with the way your brain reacts to certain frequencies. Maybe its to do with your collective experiences and how they translate to sounds.

But its different for everyone and thats the best thing of all cos life would be pretty damn boring if everyone sang the same song.
 
This is so subjective it is hardly possible to discuss rationally, but you have all made a great effort. From my perspective I hear music, rather than songs, so bizarre,artificial or just plain bad vocal performances don't bother me if the underlying music stirs me. Who ever went to a Rory Gallagher gig to hear him sing? or Hendrix for that matter?

I am 38 years old and a real dinosaur in musical terms as this listing (in no particular order) of some of my favourite songs will prove:

Minstrel in the Gallery (Jethro Tull)
Somebody Get Me a Doctor (Van Halen)
Keep on Rockin' me (Steve Miller band)
Supernaut (Black Sabbath)
Pride and Joy(Stevie Ray Vaughan)
Summer Song(Joe Satriani)
Simple Man(Lynryd Skynryd)
Make it Last(Montrose)
The Man I'll never be(Boston)
Hocus Pocus(Focus)
etc.etc.

The thing about great dinosaur rock songs is that there is no room for compromise, you either love them or hate them at first listen, I remember when Sabbath mysteriously released a live version of 'Symptom of the Universe' as a single in the UK, probably as a joke, and it was reviewed by a panel of listeners on national radio, who unanimously dismissed it as 'nothing but noise,with no tune' - well, EXACTLY!! It is the feeling, the capacity to stir violent emotions that is the essence of a great ROCK song (great pop music should be judged on a different set of criteria).

To my ears, this brings Scott Stapp of Creed right into the reckoning as a great rock artist, polarising views about his vocal quality and lyrics. For me, I can't listen to What If (from the Human Clay album) without a surge of adrenaline and the urge to raise a clenched fist in the air, shouting 'YEAH!!!' This is the same feeling I got twenty - some years ago when I heard the opening riff to Deep Purple's 'Woman from Tokyo' and thought 'I want to make a noise like that'.

Music is emotion. If you can talk over it without feeling like your missing something, then it is literally nothing.
 
What makes a good song? That would have to be a John Lennon, a Tom Waits, a Neil Young, a Bob Dylan, a Jagger/Richards, a Harry Nilsson, a Randy Newman.
 
Vease, gotta agree with you on the Supernaut front.. that's one of those songs that (at least for me) picks ya up and rattles you because its so full of energy. Just makes me wanna jump around!

But I dont think that is the only defining quality of a good song. I would agree with you though on the point that it is a question of the overall feel... you dont have to be able to discern the lyrics necessarily as long as the overall sound of the song is right.

For example I'm quite into Sepultura and some of their tunes are a little hard to decipher precisely what's being squawked... but hey they do it for me.

Opera fans will know what im talkin about here.
 
My pig taunts me with lollipops and stratosphere, and I can't recall the day we met.
Uuuuugggggggg this discussion is really making me ill.
 
Ok you can use it Aaron, but I want 73.2% of all the royalties, and a fig newton and cream cheese sandwich.
 
I too get a surge of adrenaline when I hear What If, and Woman From Tokyo.
Unfortunately, it usually culminates in me kicking in whatever stereo they're coming out of.
 
I just wrote a song and it made me cry when i wrote it. I played it for my girlfriend and it made her cry. Is that a good song?? Or do I have to play it for more people and get votes whether it's good or bad, if it gets more good votes than bad votes maybe i could sell it, would that make it good??or would an artist have to put it on an album and sell some then would it be good?? or would the song have to sell millions of copies to be good?? or maybe a grammy?? but even if that happened there still would be people that say 'THAT SONG SUCKS'!
All i know is it felt good when the words and music came out, mabe as good as it will ever be.
 
All of Barry's songs make me cry.

If it still makes you cry after the 238th time that you've played it, then it's probably a good song.
 
Maffoo,
It could be a highly personal issue between 2 people, (like Brick by Ben Folds Five),
but if it can make you cry, it can probably make others cry.

My thought is that if it makes even 1 person who's not personally involved cry, it's a good song.

Jeff
 
I don't know if this has been addressed yet, but I was just thinking of other circumstances that seem to affect whether a song is a god song. Here's what I was thinking.

I really like the band Social Distortion. Nice heavy rock sound. good melodies. but the most important thing I find makes them endearing is Mike Ness' voice. I know we touched on this a little when we were slamming Creed. There's a certain toughness about his voice, actually the whole look of the band, that lends a half defiant/half weary quality to the package. If those songs were sung by somebody with that whiney nasaly adolescent punk voice, I would absolutely hate them. I know I would.

Just wanted to raise the issue that a good song may not always be a good song. Or is the song still good?can we, or should we, try to separate the song from the musicians delivering it? I like this thread, so I'm trying to keep it going.
 
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