Warm Audio Bus Comp - ratio backwards?

[famous beagle]

So we recently moved up north to Milwaukee for a new job, and I'm in the midst of wiring up the studio again, but now using all balanced connections as discussed above.

But then I just realized ... what about inserts? All the equipment I have with inserts on them - such as the Tascam 388 - has unbalanced inserts. Even the equipment I have with balanced input/output connections - such as the Warm Audio WA273EQ mic pre - has unbalanced inserts. How do you normally handle inserts?

 

[Farview]

Inserts are (nearly) always unbalanced. Just run everything to a patch bay and use unbalanced patch cables to make the connection. It works just fine.

 

[famous beagle]

Inserts are (nearly) always unbalanced. Just run everything to a patch bay and use unbalanced patch cables to make the connection. It works just fine.

Yeah I realize that inserts are almost always unbalanced. Did you happen to read the issue I was having with the Bus Comp earlier in the thread? When I engage the "Transformers" button, I was getting a 6dB drop in volume. Warm Audio told me this is likely because I was using a patch bay with mixed balanced and unbalanced cabling. I confirmed that, when I took the patch bay out of the equation, I was not having the volume drop issue.

So, my question now is, why wouldn't I have the same issue when using an insert?

 

[Farview]

Yeah I realize that inserts are almost always unbalanced. Did you happen to read the issue I was having with the Bus Comp earlier in the thread? When I engage the "Transformers" button, I was getting a 6dB drop in volume. Warm Audio told me this is likely because I was using a patch bay with mixed balanced and unbalanced cabling. I confirmed that, when I took the patch bay out of the equation, I was not having the volume drop issue.

So, my question now is, why wouldn't I have the same issue when using an insert?

Yes you would. Having a transformer balanced piece of equipment is the exception to the "unbalanced is fine" rule. In order to use it as an "insert" you would have to use two channels. Go into one, come out of a direct out, into the compressor, out of the compressor into the line input on a second channel. (Assuming the direct out is balanced)

Or you can use an outboard preamp into the compressor into the line input.

 

[famous beagle]

Yes you would. Having a transformer balanced piece of equipment is the exception to the "unbalanced is fine" rule. In order to use it as an "insert" you would have to use two channels. Go into one, come out of a direct out, into the compressor, out of the compressor into the line input on a second channel. (Assuming the direct out is balanced)

Or you can use an outboard preamp into the compressor into the line input.

Ok thanks very much. So, let me ask one more thing if you don't mind. Let's say we have this scenario:

I'm mixing down from my Tascam 388, going from the balanced stereo outs to the patchbay (balanced) through the Bus Comp via balanced and out to my interface for mix down (balanced). Using balanced cables throughout, it should be all good, yes?

What if, however, I'm inserting some compressors on a few channels on the 388 at the same time, which are going through the patchbay via unbalanced connections?

Would that introduce any issues? Or will the issue only occur when the Bus Comp is directly involved with the balanced/unbalanced mismatch?

 

[Farview]

You should be good as long as the path to and from the bus comp is balanced.

It's my understanding that most equipment is impedance balanced, which does not send signal down both the tip and ring of a balanced cable. It still cancels the noise, but when you unbalance it, you just get rid of the noise cancelling properties while still having 100% of the signal.

With transformer balanced equipment, it is actually sending signal down both the tip and the ring of a balanced cable, so when you unbalance it, you lose half of the signal (6db) because only the signal from the tip gets to the next thing in the chain.

 

[famous beagle]

You should be good as long as the path to and from the bus comp is balanced.

It's my understanding that most equipment is impedance balanced, which does not send signal down both the tip and ring of a balanced cable. It still cancels the noise, but when you unbalance it, you just get rid of the noise cancelling properties while still having 100% of the signal.

With transformer balanced equipment, it is actually sending signal down both the tip and the ring of a balanced cable, so when you unbalance it, you lose half of the signal (6db) because only the signal from the tip gets to the next thing in the chain.

Oooooohhhhhhh. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!