Wanting to learn and get started with home recording!

[jbroad572]

I know absolutely nothing at the moment, but hope to within 5-6 years be able to record and produce near-professional quality (or at least near to it) music in my studio (realistic goal?) I don't know exactly where to start, but I'm trying to learn the different components that I will be using and also want to get a beginning setup at the moment. I already have a PC, but need to buy a good soundcard, mixer (probably), mic's, monitors or headphones.
For the time being I would like to record my saxophone playing. I have a few friends who sing r&b and use a guitar, a few other people who can sing pretty good as well. So, I figure that will make for good practice and help build some experience. I have an older keyboard that has midi output, so that may come in handy. I'm going to be setting up this beginner studio more than likely in a corner of my bedroom or maybe my living room. I'm not really going for quality, but more familiarity and learning. I hope I'm giving the right information. Please point in the right direction so I can read on what different things do, (mixers, affects, software, hardware, diff types of mic's, etc.) Also please offer suggestions as to what would be some good equipment to start off with. I have no problem buying used equipment, especially if it's good stuff. I was thinking about starting off with 2 or 3 mic's with stands (one being a clip on or a mic specifically for my sax).

 

[Rokket]

Looks like your heading in the right direction. You didn't mention software, if any that you intend to use.

I would suggest investing in a good 4-track analog multi-tracker to learn recording on. You can get a new one for about $100 US, and that way you can get the basics down. PC recording can be a bit overwhelming if you don't know what you are doing.

Or, if you want to go digital, there are some really good 8 track recorders for around $300 US, and a lot of them have usb outputs to your pc.

Look up Fostex, Tascam, Zoom, and Boss on the internet to give yourself some ideas as to what the different machines can do.

As far as pc, MAudio makes good interfaces to record directly to your pc. There are others. I personally don't record direct to my pc, so hopefully someone who does can give you better direction.

Welcome to the board, and I hope I was more helpful than confusing.

Rokket

 

[jbroad572]

Looking at some other keyboard recommendations I don't think the keyboard I have will cut it . I do have a bit of musical background, probably not enough, but I'm learning and probably will take a music theory class this upcoming fall.
I guess my goals are to do a little bit of everything, but focus on jazz, r&b, spoken word (poems with a bass line and beat), and vocals. I would like to have the knowledge, so I am not limited to just genres of music that I'm interested in.
My computer specs right now are AMD 3400+, 512mb RAm, 6800gt card, onboard (DFI 250gb NF3) audio. So a sound card is a must. I hve plenty of hard drive space though.

 

[jbroad572]

Thanks for the help. Just a few of many to come questions from your response. As far as software, I'm not sure on that either . So you are suggesting instead of recording straight to my computer purchase a seperate device that will do the recording to an 8track tape or use the provided outputs and have it go to my computer?

 

[Rokket]

Thanks for the help. Just a few of many to come questions from your response. As far as software, I'm not sure on that either . So you are suggesting instead of recording straight to my computer purchase a seperate device that will do the recording to an 8track tape or use the provided outputs and have it go to my computer?

It's only a suggestion, mind you. I am not going to tell you how to spend your money, but a digital 8 track (not tape) will give you outputs to your pc, and you can mix on there.

For software, I don't know your budget, but there are so many of them available, I don't even know where to begin. Do a search of this forum, with the words "software" in the search tab, and you will come up with a few thousand posts on which software. The main ones on this board are Cakewalk, Ntracks, Cubase... There are dozens of others. Each one has it's pro's and con's, it's a matter of taste. I would recommend downloading demo versions and trying them out to see what you like, and which one will work for what you are doing. They are similar in features, but some of them have a huge learning curve.

I was making the suggestion to get an outboard multitracker to learn recording techniques on because it's all laid out for you on the unit. PC recording means having to install the soundcard, configuring your pc for recording, learning how to use the interface (soundcard) inputs, getting decent monitors, figuring out how to get a good signal, noise from pc fans. I am trying to stear you away from it, but for me, it's too much to deal with. With a good multitracker, it's a matter of plugging in, checking your levels and hitting the record button.

Again the choice is up to you. I just think it would be easier to learn to record on a multitracker versus learning on the pc.

Good luck with whichever route you decide to take.

Rokket

 

[Guitar Jim]

I'm going to go the way Rokket advises.
Several months ago I was here asking advice about computer recording, but in the end I decided I didn't want to negotiate the learning curve plus all the obvious computer issues. I've just bought an 8 track digital recorder with onboard CD burner.
I'm very experienced at writing, playing, and singing, and I want to concentrate on that creative side rather than worry about technological stuff. I get the impression that "some" folks think that technology provides good recordings, whereas I believe that good writing, playing and singing are by FAR the main ingredients...... "technology" is at best fourth on the list; sure it's important, but it's only part of the answer.
I'm no expert of course, but I suspect that having a full overview of the whole "creative" recording process (and not just being equipment orientated ) and being able to get good results with whatever equipment one has, rather than lusting after this or that machine or mic or whatever, will in the long run probably be the best thing for a beginner to aim for.
But what would I know.... I'm just an ol' ex hippie with a bald spot!

 

[Rokket]

You can't go wrong with it. I cut my teeth on a Tascam MF-P01, which is a little 4-tracker that only cost me $60.00 (it was on sale). I outgrew it and moved up to the Fostex MR-8, which I have had for over a year now, and I still love it. You can learn so much of what to do and what not to do as far as recording goes, just by recording on a little 4 track. You can learn about input levels and clipping, panning, overdubbing, layering, and mic placement. If you don't want to buy one, you can always rent. Other good models to look at are the Tascam MKII or MKIII. They have bouncing capabilities (take tracks 1-3 and mix them down to track 4, giving you 3 more tracks to work with).
I agree wholeheartedly with Jim that you should learn the basics of recording on something that is a bit more user friendly, then move up when you are ready.

Once again, good luck with whichever you decide.
The decision is yours to make. I just want to offer my suggestions!

 

[jbroad572]

Finally doing something I should have done before posting this thread (read a intro to recording page), so now I can understand what you guys are talking about. I do think I would want to start out with a digital 8-track recorder/mixer. That will give me a lot of room for expansion as I learn more and more. If I went digital then I would be recording my tracks to the computer or do some digital recorders have the hard drive that it will record to it, then I can burn to cd-r, somehow?

 

[jbroad572]

Something like this is what I'm talking about. That would avoid the necessity of going through a pc and would be good to learn the basics on am I correct?
With this, I want to actually be patient and start off the right way and learn at my own pace. So, I will listen to your words of wisdom , which I normally never do. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/s=recorders/search/detail/base_pid/240280/
With this device would I still be able to get it on my pc via the outputs just in case I wanted to?

 

[jbroad572]

I was making the suggestion to get an outboard multitracker to learn recording techniques on because it's all laid out for you on the unit. PC recording means having to install the soundcard, configuring your pc for recording, learning how to use the interface (soundcard) inputs, getting decent monitors, figuring out how to get a good signal, noise from pc fans. I am trying to stear you away from it, but for me, it's too much to deal with. With a good multitracker, it's a matter of plugging in, checking your levels and hitting the record button.

Again the choice is up to you. I just think it would be easier to learn to record on a multitracker versus learning on the pc.

Nevermind . I think I will go this route. Do most of the professionals record using a tracker or their pc's?

 

[Rokket]

Something like this is what I'm talking about. That would avoid the necessity of going through a pc and would be good to learn the basics on am I correct?
With this, I want to actually be patient and start off the right way and learn at my own pace. So, I will listen to your words of wisdom , which I normally never do. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/s=recorders/search/detail/base_pid/240280/
With this device would I still be able to get it on my pc via the outputs just in case I wanted to?

That recorder is a very good choice. You can do all the recording, mixing and burn to cd right in the machine. It has pretty decent pre amps that are quiet enough. One thing, there are lots of people who use this machine, and they all report that you should position yourself as far from it as possible when recording because you can pick up the sound of the harddrive on your recordings if you are not careful (a minimum of 3 feet was suggested).

For less money, you can try out the MR-8. It has usb outs to the pc, and comes with a program called "Wave Manager" to make transferring to pc really easy. The pre amps in the unit are not very good, however, and getting a good pre amp or a mixer to use with it are advised.
Good luck whichever way you go. And welcome the world of home recording!

 

[jbroad572]

Awesome! I definitely think I will be going with the above recorder. Last question and I pomise I will stop bugging you all in this thread. To get my first home recording studio setup here's what I have so far.

Fostex VF80EX 8
SM57 for sure maybe 2, which will be used with my sax
electrovoice re-15, 16 , will be used for vocals (jazz/r&b), unless I get other suggestions.
Stands for the mic's
Headphones- easy choice... used to be a headphonholic.
PC and some kind of software, which I will research next.
I've got an old Yamaha keyboard that does midi, but it's just like one of those keyboards you would buy at Walmart for a semi-serious teenager or something. So I may ditch that and go with something else. (How would midi work with the use of a recorder?)

After all that I will be good to go? Is there anything else I would need?

 

[Guitar Jim]

That's a good price for a new VF80 from musiciansfriend , plus you'd get a warranty as well ( I considered buying one from here myself but I soon found they don't do international sales except to Canada ). So I bought one secondand ( 1 year old, hardly used ) on Ebay yesterday for $US365. I'd have to pay well over 3 times as much for a brand new one here in Australia..... things aint cheap here.

 

[noisedude]

I don't want to be abrupt but here's my personal recommendations:

- PC! That way you don't get tied in to an entire setup. Get an M-Audio or E-Mu card to get started with.
- Mics - do a little more searching - I don't think I'd use a 57 on sax, try to find a mic that matches your vocalist well. If you are stuck, post what they sound like on the mic forum and see what people suggest.
- Headphones - it's all about isolation. Whether they sound good or not is irrelevant for recording with - you just need to know you aren't going to have bleed coming out of them and ghosting into your new tracks.
- PC software - Tracktion, the cheapest Cubase and N-Track what I'd look at. Tracktion is fun, Cubase is the baby brother of a serious package and N-Track seems to be recommended by all who use.
- Keyboard - if your keyboard has MIDI then that's great. Get a little USB midi interface for your PC and learn about VST Intruments - essentially bypassing the sounds from your keyboard but still using the keys themselves to play the music.
- If you're going the PC route, get a mixer. Yamaha's MG range and (higher up but worth it) Soundcraft's 'M' series are great value. Behringer's mixers generally are not ... but we'll not debate that right here

 

[jbroad572]

I don't want to be abrupt but here's my personal recommendations:

- PC! That way you don't get tied in to an entire setup. Get an M-Audio or E-Mu card to get started with.
- Mics - do a little more searching - I don't think I'd use a 57 on sax, try to find a mic that matches your vocalist well. If you are stuck, post what they sound like on the mic forum and see what people suggest.

What do you mean by getting tied into a setup? Why would you suggest recording via pc rather than multitrack?

I did get that suggestion for the 57 for a sax from a view owners and they say it is a great mic for recording. This will be until I buy a clip on for it.

 

[noisedude]

I'm not the world's biggest 57 fan - but that's no big deal. Try it against whatever else you have and pick your fav. It's fine to disagree with me because I'm pretty clueless.

Tied in - if you buy an SIAB you have a finite and non-expandable number of tracks and functions. If you have a PC, set of converters (soundcard), set of preamps (e.g. a mixer) etc, you can upgrade any or none at any point.

 

[jbroad572]

I'm not the world's biggest 57 fan - but that's no big deal. Try it against whatever else you have and pick your fav. It's fine to disagree with me because I'm pretty clueless.

Tied in - if you buy an SIAB you have a finite and non-expandable number of tracks and functions. If you have a PC, set of converters (soundcard), set of preamps (e.g. a mixer) etc, you can upgrade any or none at any point.

No, not disagreeing, every bit of inpout helps make a decision. Ok, so your biggest reason for using a PC would be the expandability? I think I will go with the external setup for now, that way I can move things around and take it with me if needed. Also, I think it would be great to learn on and then of course I could always tackle a pc or may be just happy with that kind of setup.

 

[noisedude]

The flexibility of graphical editing, different softwares, plugins etc is what appeals to me about the PC.

Efficiency and portability are not

Go for the SIAB if you like - if I could afford one of those Roland VS ones, I'd ditch my PC anyway!!

 

[Dack]

Hey Rokket, you've got me interested in that MR-8. The only thing I'm worried about is I hear that memory card is pretty small and useless. Could you describe what your whole recording process is like? I don't really understand if you use the card, or go straight through USB to the PC, or what.

 

[Rokket]

Hey Rokket, you've got me interested in that MR-8. The only thing I'm worried about is I hear that memory card is pretty small and useless. Could you describe what your whole recording process is like? I don't really understand if you use the card, or go straight through USB to the PC, or what.

First, I bought a 512MB card... you have to go to the Fostex website and find one that is compatable...

I record everything on to the MR-8, tracks 1 to 6, then use the wave manager to transfer these tracks to pc.

I then bounce down tracks 1-6 to track 7/8, and record on tracks 1-4 again.

Most of the time I delete these tracks, because the first 6 that I bounced down are now my guide tracks.

With the MR-8, each time you record, it is recording it as a 16 bit 44.1khz .wav file, and it actually records a duplicate file to enable the undo/redo feature on the machine. I go into the menu and delete them each time to save space on the CF card...

That's it...

Let me know if you want anymore detail. You'll understand it a bit more if you do buy one and go through the manual...