VTB-1 question for Alan

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notCardio

I walk the line
Alan,

Since these are technical questions directed to a manufacturer about his product, hopefully you won't get any of the spam police bitching about this one. :rolleyes:

Do you have any plans to produce a two channel version in the very near future? I know, everybody always wants something else, but it seems to me that a standalone mic pre (versus the pre in a board) is often used not only for vocals, but acoustic guitar and piano as well, which are often mic'ed in stereo. While you of course could use a pre for everything you're micing (like a full set of drums), two channels for these instruments (and close/distant micing for guitar amps) seems so common, that a single channel might make a lot of people not consider it as their first pre. Yes, you can buy two, but then that's $360 for stereo, versus $200 for a DMP3.

Technical question: If the tube should fail, does that render the pre inoperable, or just the tube blend feature?

Thanks, and keep 'em coming!
 
sorry to jump in....

i have a DMP2 (which the DMP3 fixed its few shortcomings) and its a good preamp...but it is basically a clean pre......

with the VTB1 you can get more tonal possibilities....well worth the extra $$$.....
 
Gidge,

Yeah, I know what you're saying, but if my primary interest was in a clean pre, I'm just saying that I might be inclined to go with another acceptably clean pre simply because of the dual-channel factor, even though the VTB-1 might be better. That's really what I'd like to see, I guess, is a dual-channel version of the VTB-1 without the tube circuit. Leaving out the tube circuit would bring the price down, making the dual-channel setup more affordable for those who just want clean. But, I suppose there has to be cutoff point somehwere, as far as variations on the gear. Can't have everything. :(
 
if ya just want clean,dont wait on Alan to design something...get the DMP3......
 
If I wanted clean pre. Id use my 8 channel. Im a bigger fan of being able to change the personality of the vocals. The DMP3 was so great why arent studios using them. Ive heard it and its allright a little more air in the high end than the audio buddy but the Yamaha MLA7 8 channel Ive got has more definition on high end and has no audible self noise fully cranked putting out 64db.
 
Cardiod, in the event that the "tube blend" feature died, the pre still
operates in the solid state mode.
BTW, have tried the Presonus MP20 with a couple of microphones before,
and the VTB-1 is superior IMHO, so my expectation is that the VTB-1 is
also superior to the DMP3.

Chris
 
Chessparov,

Thanks for the info. Hope you're enjoying your new toy. And thanks for sharing your findings so far. If you would refresh my memory, what other pre's have you used that you could compare it against?

Gidge,

I don't expect Alan to design anything for me. It was just a suggestion. It wouldn't take a major circuit re-design to just leave out the tube path and include a second unit on the same chassis, although it would mean a major re-design of the layout and packaging. Since stereo micing (or should I say 'dual micing') of acoustics is pretty much the standard practice, any pre that I get that I hope to use for acoustic micing will have to be dual channel. Now, if I could afford one pre for vocals, and another for acoustic, then I wouldn't have this dilemma, but unfortunately I can't right now. I was actually ready to get a DMP3 when the VTB-1 came out. If I thought that the VTB-1's clean sound was pretty comparable to the DMP3, I'd go ahead and get the DMP3 (plus, I dig those analog meters!). But Harvey's preliminary review seems to indicate that the VTB-1 is on a whole different level than the other 'bottom-feeder' pre's.

What to do, what to do...
 
Chessparov,

Thanks for the info. Hope you're enjoying your new toy. And thanks for sharing your findings so far. If you would refresh my memory, what other pre's have you used that you could compare it against?

Gidge,

I don't expect Alan to design anything for me. It was just a suggestion. It wouldn't take a major circuit re-design to just leave out the tube path and include a second unit on the same chassis, although it would mean a major re-design of the layout and packaging. Since stereo micing (or should I say 'dual micing') of acoustics is pretty much the standard practice, any pre that I get that I hope to use for acoustic micing will have to be dual channel. Now, if I could afford one pre for vocals, and another for acoustic, then I wouldn't have this dilemma, but unfortunately I can't right now. I was actually ready to get a DMP3 when the VTB-1 came out. If I thought that the VTB-1's clean sound was pretty comparable to the DMP3, I'd go ahead and get the DMP3 (plus, I dig those analog meters!). But Harvey's preliminary review seems to indicate that the VTB-1 is on a whole different level than the other 'bottom-feeder' pre's.

What to do, what to do... :confused:
 
Cardiod, based on another user's posts the DMP3 is "very close"
to a Presonus MP20, you only can a bigger difference between the
two when you crank the DMP3 up near full gain.
Other pre's I own or have used besides the MP20;

1) Aphex 107 dual mic pre (a step above Mackie VLZ Pro's)
2) Joe Meek VC3Q and VC6Q ("rounder" sounding than VLZ's)
3) Behringer 802A mixer (O.K. you can laugh now!)
4) Bellari MP 105 (AKA "The Hum Injector")

The Meek's and the Aphex are fine for professional project level
work (or even higher!). Keep in mind, however, that the Meeks
are 3 in 1 (or more) devices, and the Aphex 107 has only one
"sound" (mild warmth/detailed), whereas the VTB-1 has much
more tone flexibility with greater detail.

Chris
 
I agree a dual channel VTB-1 might be very cool.
I'd loose the wall wart though.
 
Cardioidpotent said:
I don't expect Alan to design anything for me. It was just a suggestion. It wouldn't take a major circuit re-design to just leave out the tube path and include a second unit on the same chassis, although it would mean a major re-design of the layout and packaging.

What to do, what to do... :confused:
Click to expand...

Well, we have lots of plans. Truth is we have two new mics coming for AES, and 6 new electronic units.

The next unit is not a stereo unit, but it is an 8 channel unit using the Burr Brown chips, so it really is a Grace 101 with eight channels. It is also a mixer. This should be shipping in 60 to 90 days...we hope.

We are looking into making a housing that will hold two VTB-1's in a single rack. Not quite what you are requesting, but it makes better sense to have the VTB-1 be mono for now. We will be doing full channel strips including stereo versions based on the VTB-1 mic pre, with compression and eq. All I can say is the compression and eq are extremely feature rich with features never seen on this kind of a unit at the target price before.

But before this turns into a Hype war and I start getting hammered, we have about 8 more mics coming out over the next two years and 6 electronic processors and we will be doing mixers as well.

So, we will be busy....:D
 
Chessparov,

You say that an MP20 and DMP3 are 'very close', but would you say that the MP20 and VTB-1 (just talking about the 'clean' sound, now) are 'very close'? If not, then I would assume that the DMP3 and VTB-1 are not 'very close' either, hence the dilemma. If the DMP3 is "Hey, that's nice" and the VTB-1 is "WOW, that's NICE!", it's kinda hard to give up the "WOW" factor. Kinda like driving a Caddy, then a Mercedes. Yeah, it's still a Caddy and verrry nice, but the other's a MERCEDES and VERRRY NICE!

And I've got nothing to laugh about, my only pre's right now are in my 1202A mixer! :(

And Alan, when you do make that dual-channel pre, put some meters on it. Puleeeze?:cool:
 
Cardioidpotent said:
Yes, you can buy two, but then that's $360 for stereo, versus $200 for a DMP3.
Click to expand...

Hi Cardio...

I can understand your dilemma, but think of the historical perspective. It wasn't long ago that any of us would have been thrilled to find a single channel of decent sounding outboard mic pre for under $500. Now we are at the point where we are complaining that 2 channels for $360 is way too much!

Don't misunderstand... I'm not getting on your case, C., or trying to be sarcastic. It's just interesting how the marketplace and its accompanying expectations have changed in such a short time! Remember when a "cheap" condenser mic was a 414b/ULS at $1000? (Or am I just showing my age?)

We certainly are living in the golden age of affordability!
 
I have both a VTB-1 and an MP20. In preliminary tests, they're both very clean (in solid state mode on the VTB). To my ears, the VTB has the clarity of the MP20 without the slight forwardness of the MP20 in the upper mids . Without the IDSS, the Presonus units sounds slightly "bright" and has a slightly "forward" sound compared to the VTB. It's kind of hard to explain, it's as if the upper mids have some sort of slightly unnatural boost to it that, although clean, sounds like a process. On the other hand, the VTB has a more "rounded" and "natural" sound. Even with no tube blend, the tone is more "earthy". Basically, the VTB makes things sound like the ear hears it (non hyped...neutral). The presonus is very clean and IMO on the same level, but the sounds are definitely in different families. Both are useful for different stuff.

For vocals, I'm using the VTB as my main neutral pre (varying the tube blend as needed). I'll be using the Presonus for background tracks to get a cleaner more forward texture that is different from the leads. After these two pres, I've all but ran out of uses for my Mackie 1202 vlz, except for monitoring. In my preliminary tests, the Mackie (although a good set of pres in it's own right) just doesn't compare to the PreSonus and the VTB-1.
 
Rev E,

Thanks for the info. That's the kinda stuff this place is SUPPOSED to be about.

Litlledog,

I really wasn't complaining about the price, believe me. I was really just bemoaning my financial state, that for me, right now, $200 is do-able, but $380 isn't. So I have to ask myself whether I would rather have two very clean, usable channels, which would allow me to do more things and do them more easily, or one really kick-ass channel that would not only be better, but more versatile. I guess if I could get my acoustic guitar mic technique down well enough, I could get by with using a single mic for awhile. I guess it's like Harvey said, "it's the years and the ears, then the gear."

Alan,

Roughly how long before the channel-strip stuff? Are we talking weeks, months or years?

Thanks to everyone.
 
Cardioidpotent said:

Alan,

Roughly how long before the channel-strip stuff? Are we talking weeks, months or years?

Thanks to everyone.
Click to expand...

I hope to show a unit at NAMM in January, but by March is the best guess before we are shipping that unit.
 
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