Vocals Sounding a bit dead

[Faded Sole]

I have a very basic and bare recording setup. Using the mic input on my computer to a preamp (w/ phantom power) to a condenser mic. Right now its doing its job of just playing around. But as I progress and do more reading into Home Reading im finding that my recordings sound a bit flat.

Not in the sense in the tone or anything. But in the way during when I go to mix, and master. The track doesnt sound as brilliant, as awesome as some of your vocal tracks. I know that my recording setup is hindering me a bit.

But what sorts of things or presets should I play with to bring out the sound behind this wall and give it some shape.

 

[mikeh]

These are very general comments, but:

Adding processing to the vocal (compression to allow a hotter recording of the vocals, EQ to roll off some lows or possibly accent some mid highs).

Adding FX such as reverb or a slight delay.

Play with mic placement to try to find an area that may allow a little more room ambiance (be careful with this, since there is a fine line between room ambiance and sound reflections that could make the voclas sound too harsh).

Does your mic have any controls (pattern adjustment, pad, bass roll-off)? adjusting these may help - if you understand what the adjustments are designed to do.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Sole! First things first. The preamp goes to the *line* input on the soundcard, not the *mic* input, which is not used for recording. Start there.
Next- What mic? What preamp? What soundcard?
You know I'm racing a Volkswagon beetle in the Indianapolis 500 qualifier, and it seems to be going a little slow. How can I tweak it to make it go faster? Do you think high test gas will help?-Richie

 

[Joseph Hanna]

Next- What mic? What preamp? What soundcard?
You know I'm racing a Volkswagon beetle in the Indianapolis 500 qualifier, and it seems to be going a little slow. How can I tweak it to make it go faster? Do you think high test gas will help?-Richie

I dunno Richie your response seems a bit harsh. The original post seems to be an honest question about audio by an honest, admittedly new, engineer. If these forums NEED anything it's a return to discussions about music and the making of music.

So 'Faded Soles' the Volkswagen Beetle and exactly who around here is the Indianapolis 500???

I'd further submit that for someone new in the business there's probably mounds of great suggestions that could help before we get into the mind numbing "this soundcard is better than that soundcard" routine.


To Faded Sole. It's simply impossible to suggest anything specific in these situations. Sonic Solutions come with time and practice and patience and an open mind. Perhaps start by loading into a current session of yours a recording of your favorite current artist. Take an evening and compare their (his or hers) vocals and where they sit and how they're eq'd against your own. Learn eq. It is my experience that most if not ALL new to recording have NO fundamental understanding of eq. Before you rush out and start buying a new soundcard or pre-amp or mic treat yourself and take a month (or 12) to gain some eq basic's. I guarantee...I guarantee that will make your recordings sound better.

JH

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

In Richard's defence I don't think he was being entirely serious, he's always seemed like a very friendly and helpful chap to me. It's a pretty good analogy really.

I agree that you should get the best out of the gear you currently have before making upgrade decisisons. You'll make better choices that way and not waste money on unnecessary gear. Of course the quality of the end product will depend to an extent on the quality of your gear. But that's not to say you can't achieve very respectable results if you make good use of what you have.

As has been said EQ, Compression and 'verb/delay is mainly what you need to read up on and play around with for vocal processing.

Some great reading material here:

http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/

What tools are you currently using? If you're mixing in software then there are a bunch of pretty decent free vst effects/processors available. A few of my favourites can be found at the following links:

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-series.php

http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=5

Remember these are tools for shaping and polishing your tracks. If it sounds crappy to start with then no amount of tweaking will make it sound good. So try and get the best sound at source before hitting record.

Good luck with it.

 

[Joseph Hanna]

In Richard's defence I don't think he was being entirely serious, he's always seemed like a very friendly and helpful chap to me. It's a pretty good analogy really.

I agree that you should get the best out of the gear you currently have before making upgrade decisisons. You'll make better choices that way and not waste money on unnecessary gear. Of course the quality of the end product will depend to an extent on the quality of your gear.

Yes absolutely if I misunderstood Richard's intent then my apologies to all. Especially Richard.

I get difficult audio projects on a daily basis. The thought never crosses my mind that "my sound card sucks, my pre amp sucks or my mic sucks" I do, from time to time, think the engineer (me) sucks and I better pull out all the tools I have to correct the problem at hand.

I guess it comes down to human nature and the generation at hand. Maybe I was fortunate but when I was learning (interning) way back when, the studio where I learned didn't upgrade a single piece of equipment for the entire three plus years I was there. I improved my skills by mixing on what we had, which was by the way infinitely inferior to Pro Tools free. I eventually got some pretty good sounding product. The key here is the word "eventually".

I can't help but think however that if every mix I did that sounded horrific I jumped up and proclaimed "not me...bad sound card" I would have wasted precious time looking at the Sweetwater catalog rather the self admitting fact that I failed and if I hoped to improve I better hone the skills at hand

The percentage of those who really believe that purchasing a soundcard will improve their product is staggering. They're simply not informed enough to take advantage of what they already use. I've sat with interns for weeks and watched them fumble through the most fundamental of tasks however capable of reciting the latest copy writers description of the new Sony Eq.

What caught my eye with Richards post was a knee jeck reaction to an audio problem. Distilled and paraphrased his post said first things first..whats your soundcard, mic pre,mic?

That is NOT the "first" place I look when I encounter an audio problem.

 

[dwillis45]

What caught my eye with Richards post was a knee jeck reaction to an audio problem. Distilled and paraphrased his post said first things first..whats your soundcard, mic pre,mic?

That is NOT the "first" place I look when I encounter an audio problem.

JH, I noticed a few of your posts with the same general theme: Focus on learning and experience before laying out money for gear-realted solutions. I agree with you 100 percent as I'm sure many others on this BBS would. The only problem is that we often see questions where the quality of the gear is so fundamentally related to the nature of the audio problem, that a "knee jerk reaction" is just common sense. I think this applies to Faded Sole's query unless I read it too hastily. I would encourage him to learn and gain as much audio experience as possible. But first, stop using the computer's mic plug!

 

[Joseph Hanna]

Yes of course you're right. Gain structure is an appropriate response to trouble shooting audio problems and perhaps I was looking at the over all "tone" of the post and not giving credit for that particular suggestion.

That's twice now I've said I'm sorry to Richard. Richard I am sorry.

Of cousre you know having said that I'm gonna follow with a predictable reponse.

It's not so much about spending money. If you have the means and choose to do so...go for it. There's nothing counter productive about that except for one's bank account balance. There's also nothing counter productive about good quality gear. That in and of itself falls under the catagory of
"Mr. Obvious" But all too often I see posts racing to suggest that the root of an audio problem is of course your (insert: monitors, mic-pre's, compressor's, mic's and most often software). It's not the problem...It's just not.

It's a tired idea, I know, but give a "talented" engineer an M-Box and Radio Shack monitors he (or she) WILL produce a great sounding piece of audio without a murmer of "Pro Tools" sucks or the mic pre's on the M-Box suck or I would have sounded better using Sonar or......

 

[NYMorningstar]

It's a tired idea, I know, but give a "talented" engineer an M-Box and Radio Shack monitors he (or she) WILL produce a great sounding piece of audio without a murmer of "Pro Tools" sucks or the mic pre's on the M-Box suck or I would have sounded better using Sonar or......

Give that same engineer a soundblaster with a PIII and a 16 track song and you'll here it sucks all nite long.

Until the market stops distributing crap equipment, you have to consider that as part of the problem.

Richie, hide a little turbo in the VW and add a little toluene to your gas and they'll be eating your dust.

 

[Richard Monroe]

First of all, Joseph, there was never anything to apologize for. I don't have one of those paper thin skins. The most obvious problem of the original poster was that his preamp was plugged into the wrong input on his soundcard. Suggesting that he doesn't do that seemed like the first obvious step.
Then, I asked for a description of his signal chain. At no point have I recommended (yet) that he buy anything. Now, if his electret computer mic is plugged into a Rolls mic pre into his soundblaster, I'm sorry, I will. If his U47 is plugged into an Avalon into a Motu, guess what, I won't. Like most folks, he is probably somewhere in between, but not necessarily. The fact that he is plugging into the mic in on a soundcard with the line level output of a preamp supports the idea that he doesn't have a lot of experience at this.
I generally only recommend throwing money at problems when the gear really wasn't designed for the job at hand or involves mismatched components, or when a person with adequate gear and a pretty good understanding of how to use it is looking to get to the next level. I want to know this guy's signal chain because in order to help him, I need to know if he *can* get decent sound with his setup.
I agree that a great engineer could get perfectly good recordings with an M-box. I don't think Sole *has* an M-box, or anything like it, and it may well be that if he did, his problem would be largely solved (Porsche powered Volkswagon). I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. It's just that I can't tell if someone needs a reality check until I know what their reality is.-Richie

 

[Joseph Hanna]

Give that same engineer a soundblaster with a PIII and a 16 track song and you'll here it sucks all nite long.

Until the market stops distributing crap equipment, you have to consider that as part of the problem.

Richie, hide a little turbo in the VW and add a little toluene to your gas and they'll be eating your dust.

NYMorningstar...you so grandly miss the point.