Vocals hidden in the mix...please help!

[copperandstars]

Hello,

I am currently mixing down some songs I recorded of my friends "scremo" (emoish hardcore stuff) band. I recorded vocals using a rented AKG 414 (our only option). I applied some (not a lot by any means) vocal plate reverb with pre delay set at about 35ms. The problem is that unless I raise the level of the vocals to the point where they tower over everything else they sound somewhat "hidden" or "transparent" in the mix. They do not sound up in your face like most vocals are supposed too. If anyone has any ideas to what I could try I would appreciate it very much. I am using a friends computer with Cubase SX, tons of Waves gold plugins, and also some Timeworks plugins.

Thanks a lot,
Ryan

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Ryan:

Did you have a "good" mic pre? That will help you get the vocal up front.

If you ever listen to any old Sinatra recordings, you will definitely notice how "up front" he is. But, alas, he had the use of such great mics and marvelous engineers.

Suggest you play around with a reverb like "stage reverb." I have that algorithm on my 2816 and use it most of the time for vocals because it isn't overwhelming and doesn't melt the vocal into flubber.

Also, you might pan your music a bit left/right and keep the vocal straight up and down.

If you've got too much bass, cut the lows a bit. I guess it all amounts to experimenting and experimenting. It's kind of like buying real estate. The three major factors in real estate are: LOCATION, LOCATION, & LOCATION.

Also, you can have reverb on the cans when you are recording but DO NOT ADD THE REVERB UNTIL YOU MIX. This will give you even better control of getting the vocal up where you want it.





Green Hornet

 

[Peter Lancaster]

I agree with everything Green Hornet said, especially about the pre amp. I wouldn't have belived it if I hadn't tried it, but it's true and it can make a big difference. Imagine recording vocals with a sock over your mic, that's what they sound like without a good mic pre amp.

Let me add a few more things for you to consider :

Compression - did you compress the vocals when tracking and are you compressing them in the mix? You should be doing one or the other or both. This may help to lift the vocal out of the mix a bit. You may also find that compressing the other instruments may give the vocals some room. Guitars especially often benefit from a bit of taming to give the vocals some space.

EQ - it could be that you have frequencies in some of the instruments that are taking up the space needed for the vocals. Guitars are a common culprit as is the snare drum. If you think this is the case try dipping the EQ by about 1 or 2 dB with a Q of about 2 or less at the frequency where the vocal has the most energy (often around 800Hz-1kHz) on the offending instrument.

Reverb - try increasing the pre delay to move the vocal forward in the mix. For the sort of music you describe you probably don't want too much reverb on the vocals. Just enough so that you can't really hear it in the mix is a good starting point.

Enhancer - in extreme cases of vocals hiding in the mix and being very shy about letting people hear them I have been known to use an enhancer effects patch that seems to bring the vocal forwards a bit, but it can give the vocals a bit too much unnatural prescence, which is why I don't use it unless I have no choice.

Hope you manage to sort out the problem.

Pete.

 

[gospel]

I've had this same problem with vocals, but with another kind of music. I am still a semi-newbie at this but the following two things have worked for me.
1. Using endorphin (free, www.digitalfishphones.com) I put just a little on the vocal track. I then had to turn up the instruments a little but the vocals then "sat" in the mix besides either being buried or over riding the instruments.

2. I have also got the vocals to sit better in the mix by taking off reverb and eq that I had added which had cluttered everything up.

 

[copperandstars]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the help. I added a bit more compression to the vocals and applied some cut EQ to the snare a little bit, and now it's sounding a lot better. Now I am just looking for a good reverb plug-in / setting. The computer i'm using has the Waves gold bundle and other plugins, any setting suggestions aside from my own screwing around would be appreciated.

Ryan

 

[gospel]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the help. I added a bit more compression to the vocals and applied some cut EQ to the snare a little bit, and now it's sounding a lot better. Now I am just looking for a good reverb plug-in / setting. The computer i'm using has the Waves gold bundle and other plugins, any setting suggestions aside from my own screwing around would be appreciated.

Ryan

I use a great free reverb (in my opinion). It is called anwida. I think the site is www.anwida.com. There is a reverb you can pay for, but the free one has 11 or 12 different presets. It is called anwida reverb light.

 

[Doug H]

I've had this problem too, mostly with bassy close mixed tracks fighting with the upper range of the bass guitar.

 

[cominginsecond]

Try the Waves RVox plugin and the "Vocal plate" setting on the Waves RVerb. That works well for my hard(er) stuff.

 

[knightsy]

I've never used a 414 but from what I've heard it can be hard to get a good vocal sound on them without using a lot of EQ. Maybe try renting an NTK or something?