Vocal Recording: 1 take vs. punch-ins?

[kid klash]

I prefer to record the whole vocal track, beginning to end, then go back and punch in whatever needs tweeking. With a decent vocalist, I think the energy and feel of the vocal performance sounds more consistant this way.

 

[cello_pudding]

I prefer to record the whole vocal track, beginning to end, then go back and punch in whatever needs tweeking. With a decent vocalist, I think the energy and feel of the vocal performance sounds more consistant this way.

good point...its good to record the line before the messed up line, so the singer just doesn't jump into it.

you don't have to use the first line. basically put some preroll on it, and it will sound more cohesive with phrasing/breaths

 

[nomsans]

I do a little of both.
i record my song with nothign more than a computer, a mic and a guitar. so i mess up a lot and it takes hours.

i have some of my recordings here if interested:

www.myspace.com/jojostesprit

 

[suntzu1982]

i like to do the least amount of punch ins, but do use them when needed. I feel like I shouldn't rely on technology as much and also that the feel and energy is much better when it is a continuous take.

 

[Robert D]

Granted that really good singers can avoid mistakes in an entire performance, a lot of singers will cringe at their own minor 'goofs' even though to someone else the part sounds fine.

So, if you are the one doing the recording and the singing, then you are probably more inclined to redo a line or two.

This is where a good producer comes in. It's really hard to judge a vocal take you just did in terms other than timing and pitch. And the best takes aren't always the ones with the best timing and pitch. It can help to do several takes and wait till the next day to evaluate them, and comp them as necessary. Otherwise you may delete the magic take because of some imperfection that either didn't really hurt, or may have even humanized the performance. A good producer will often tell you "no, that was a great take, I believed you when you sang that." It's hard to hear that yourself, especially at the time.

 

[Jagular]

I do a little vocal demo work. Typically I will rehearse the song so I know it and then I will lay down four or five lead vocal tracks. I usually use the last or second to the last one because I've gotten rolling by then. Maybe 45% of the time I use the track I select without punch-ins or comps. Maybe 50% of the time I will use another one of the tracks to comp in a phrase or two that I may have delivered a little better. Probably not necessary in most cases, but I try to deliver the best track I can. The rest of the time I may do a little more surgery but if it gets too bad I'll just re-track it the next day. Hey, it happens...

BG vocals, I usually do a little warm up and take first takes of them. I just did one last night where I layered 7 BG vocal tracks (2 harmony parts). No comps or punch ins. I did waste 3 tracks warming up though .

I guess you do what works best. If you are pitchy, keep doing it until you get it right or have enough tracks to comp a good one. I have pretty good pitch but every once in a while I get a client who either has better ears than I do or just is obsessive about pitch (funny thing is usually they can't sing worth a lick themselves ). What I have found in some cases is there are times being SLIGHTLY pitchy works. Like little slides up to notes etc. This gives the vocal a feel or a style. If you analyze an Elvis vocal track with autotune I bet he'd be off a fair amount quite a bit. But it works. I think exact pitch on every note would make quite a sterile sound. Now I'm not talking about sounding like two cats fighting in a burlap bag pitch issues. I'm talking about very minor (unnoticeable to most) variations.

 

[Jack Russell]

I do a little vocal demo work. Typically I will rehearse the song so I know it and then I will lay down four or five lead vocal tracks. I usually use the last or second to the last one because I've gotten rolling by then. Maybe 45% of the time I use the track I select without punch-ins or comps. Maybe 50% of the time I will use another one of the tracks to comp in a phrase or two that I may have delivered a little better. Probably not necessary in most cases, but I try to deliver the best track I can. The rest of the time I may do a little more surgery but if it gets too bad I'll just re-track it the next day. Hey, it happens...

BG vocals, I usually do a little warm up and take first takes of them. I just did one last night where I layered 7 BG vocal tracks (2 harmony parts). No comps or punch ins. I did waste 3 tracks warming up though .

I guess you do what works best. If you are pitchy, keep doing it until you get it right or have enough tracks to comp a good one. I have pretty good pitch but every once in a while I get a client who either has better ears than I do or just is obsessive about pitch (funny thing is usually they can't sing worth a lick themselves ). What I have found in some cases is there are times being SLIGHTLY pitchy works. Like little slides up to notes etc. This gives the vocal a feel or a style. If you analyze an Elvis vocal track with autotune I bet he'd be off a fair amount quite a bit. But it works. I think exact pitch on every note would make quite a sterile sound. Now I'm not talking about sounding like two cats fighting in a burlap bag pitch issues. I'm talking about very minor (unnoticeable to most) variations.

You really sound like you know your stuff.

Man, I wish I had a real singer to work with. I've really "pushed the envelop" about as far as I can go with my own voice. The problem is to get a singer who can FEEL the songs I've written. Sometimes my handicapped voice actually sounds better being pitchy then a trained voice of the singers I've worked with. If you didn't write it, it can be hard to feel the emotion.

 

[Bill Furnett]

I do both and even have a few songs with the punch-in footswitch 'Click' captured on the track. One thing that will get me at mixdown from time to time is the mindfuck question of "Are the lyrics distinguisable or do they just seem so because i know them in my head?" I've had to hold the phone up a couple times and ask friends if they can make out what I'm singing.

 

[ez_willis]

I record everything line by line. Instruments too. It's because I suck

I do the vocals like that, too.

And I layer about 4 tracks to make it sound better. It's weird, but 4 shitty vocal tracks blended together sound less shitty than only one shitty vocal track??

 

[IronFlippy]

I do the vocals like that, too.

And I layer about 4 tracks to make it sound better. It's weird, but 4 shitty vocal tracks blended together sound less shitty than only one shitty vocal track??

If only that worked for me. I tend to use a good amount of effects to make my voice seem psychadelic, so people don't realize I suck.

 

[crosstudio]

I like to lay down 5 complete takes of the lead vocal and then pick and choose the parts I like. I'm of the opinion that punch-ins often lack soul.

for "ad-lib" tracks, I prefer for the vocalist to ad-lib over the whole thing. then i can pick, choose, and move them around.

 

[bigwillz24]

What's a punch in?

I hardly ever use punch ins because by the time I'm through punching in I might at well record the whole track again.

 

[ez_willis]

I like to lay down 5 complete takes of the lead vocal and then pick and choose the parts I like. I'm of the opinion that punch-ins often lack soul.

True, but I'm white. I lack soul anyways.

 

[bilco]

I sucketh also.

I'll even lay down three different tracks of the same vocal part, and listen to them later. Then I go back to it days later to punch in phrases. Then I'll combine the best parts of the three tracks.

Then I realize I still suck and then I get depressed and quit for a month.

Then I start the whole cycle again. After buying more electronic gear.

Man, I wish I had a real singer to work with. I've really "pushed the envelop" about as far as I can go with my own voice. The problem is to get a singer who can FEEL the songs I've written. Sometimes my handicapped voice actually sounds better being pitchy then a trained voice of the singers I've worked with. If you didn't write it, it can be hard to feel the emotion.

I can't believe the timing of your posts. It's like you've been reading my mail. I took the day off from work to lay down vocal tracks and took time to get the mic and room setup just right. I did about 4 takes of 4 different songs and they all just suck. It really makes me wonder why I dished out the money for an RNP....... I can not sing........ Like you, the demos of my songs that other singers have done, even some in Nashville that the publishers paid for, just aren't believable, flawless but no soul or believability. I think I interpret the emotion the best, but I have such a hard time maintaining pitch. It's a drag because I hear what I want to sing in my head and my voice just won't do it. I turned it all off and went to bed to take a nap all depressed. This was one of those days where I want to sell it all........
I think I need a vocal coach, if not a producer, who will just kick my ass and have the objectivity to tell me when it's done. Of course, that takes $$$

bilco

 

[Jagular]

Hey if you ever get in one of those toss it all away moods just toss your RNP my way. I'll even give you my audiobuddy for a swap!!

 

[littledog]

It's strange reading this thread, because the overwhelming opinions seem to be against punching in to fix mistakes, except as a last resort.

I've only been a professional engineer for about 12 years (before that I was strictly a musician), but in that time I've been lucky enough to record a great number of some of the best vocalists in the Boston area, as well as from around the world, many of whom are faculty in the vocal departments at Berklee, New England Conservatory, etc. These include a vast array of styles including pop, jazz, classical, world-beat, gospel, etc.

I can't think of one of them off-hand who was reluctant to fix a line or a phrase (or even a single note) in an otherwise great take. Everyone I've worked with assumes they have that option. That's not to say that I don't also record a number of complete takes. But there is a limit to how many complete takes are practical to do without wearing out the voice. Especially if they have more than one song to sing. If they've already nailed the part with the real high notes, for instance, it seems foolish to have them keep resinging that particular part while trying to fix something in a different part of the song.

If done properly, and if the vocalist and engineer both have professional chops, punching in should be completely transparent and unnoticeable by even the most scrutinizing listener.

I respect anyone's right to be a "purist", but I just don't see much of that attitude in my part of the recording universe. The buyer and listener of a CD has no idea how many takes were comped, or how many punches were made - they just appreciate how the finished product sounds. I'm sure everyone has some favorite record that is just loaded with punch-ins, even though no one could ever tell. Whatever it takes to get there is what should be done.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

If I have a really great performance that has just a couple of vocals glitches in it, I'm not going to throw the whole damn thing out and wait for another performance that's just as great but has zero errors. It may never happen. Damn right I'm joing to punch over those glitches and save the great performance.

Am I going to use an average-sounding performance as a base to patch up by throwing more punches than a drunken soccer fan? No way. That recording will be gone as quickly as I can shout "Take 2 rolling!"

G.

 

[bilco]

I'm not opposed to punching in at all and with PT LE, it's pretty easy to do. I just haven't done it. I am trying to engineer and sing at the same time. I have the vocal mic setup on the other side of the room, so I start the track recording and then run over to the mic behind the partition and sing. I am trying to get the most mileage I can per take.

I will have to teach my wife or my son how to do the basic recording, rewind and undo in PT and at some point I will start with the overdubs,

I listened to the takes I did the other night and guess what...... They don't sound bad....... I have to watch these perfectionistic self-critical moods I get in and just keep recording.

It is hard to do all of this alone. I need to involve some other musicians to actually help with the recording as well as the playing. Most of them are intimidated or indifferent about learning DAW recording though.

bilco

 

[Nicole_Rose]

i like to punch in, if the original take was worth keeping overall. if not, what's the sense?

 

[RAMI]

I agree...I find it hard to believe someone would keep starting from the beginning just because one or two lines (or words) were a little off. I'm sure everyone punches in at some point, I can't imagine even the best singer always batting 1000.