Vocal Mics for Non-Treated Rooms

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nyckylim

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Hi Guys,

Its great to have an active forum for beginners to ask questions. And before I start, I would like you guys to know that I've already used the search button and did not find anyone with a similar setup.

I have just started to get interested in recording after getting my Yamaha PSR-S950 keyboard. Hence, I went on and purchased a Shure Beta58a due to the large amount of recommendations. I wasn't very satisfied with the quality probably because I do not know how to play around with EQ settings.

The connection is as follows:
Shure Beta58a XLR -----> Yamaha PSR-S950 1/4inch Mic Input

Hence, I went on and purchased a TC Helicon Mic Mechanic which seems to make things a little less muddy but I realized that I am still not able to get those clear vocals like the example below.

Current connection:
Shure Beta58a XLR ---> Mic Mechanic (XLR) ---> Yamaha PSR-S950 1/4inch Mic Input

My room is a normal room with no acoustic treatment or whatsoever. Hence, I'm wondering if investing in a good condenser mic would clear up the vocals as I've heard from people that rooms that are not acoustically treated should not use a condenser microphone. Therefore, I would like to verify if that is true.

If the above is isn't true and you guys think that a good condenser microphone would definitely outperform the Beta58a, could you guys recommend some condenser microphones for male vocals that would still perform well in a "noisy" non-treated room ? Price budget would be below $500.

P.S: Most songs are pop ballads and sometimes jazzy bossa-nova genre.

I thank everyone for their replies in advance.

Cheers
Nycky

Example of what I mean by clear vocals:
Fever by Don Williams (I can't post youtube links as I have less than 10 posts)
 
Hi there,
Your signal chain concerns me slightly.

I can't tell at a glance if that mic mechanic is actually a mic preamp (ie. line output), or just a mic level processor that would go before a preamp.

I can't speak with experience about your keyboard, but I wouldn't be convinced that a mic preamp built into a keyboard is going to be the highest quality device.
Now, I do stand to be corrected because it certainly isn't a cheap keyboard, but I can help wondering if a dedicated usb audio interface wouldn't solve your issue.

You're right about condenser mics and bad rooms, in a way.
Dynamic mics generally let you get closer to them without issue, which means the ratio between your voice and room ambience is likely to be greater than if you used a condenser mic (or any mic) further back.

It's really the proximity that makes the difference more than anything.

I don't have time to listen to your link just at the minute, but PM it to be and I'll post it properly for you if you like.
 
It's an effects box for live performance.

TC-Helicon | VoiceTone Mic Mechanic

Like most TC stuff, probably it will be fine at what it does, but it is not really a recording preamp. I'm not even sure if you are trying to record yourself or perform live, or both.

Steeno is spot on about the room ambience.

Your Beta 58 is a decent mic and you should be able to make a reasonable recording with it.

I suspect you have an impedance mismatch with the mic/line jack input to the Yamaha keyboard. I checked the Yamaha website but I couldn't find the impedance specs for that input.
 
nyckylim said:
..Hence, I went on and purchased a TC Helicon Mic Mechanic which seems to make things a little less muddy but I realized that I am still not able to get those clear vocals like the example below. ...
Click to expand...
To add to what's been said one of the things in play here, mic distances are giving you options to improve both voice tone and perspective- balanced against the voice sig strength vs the room's noise and room echo effects. For example getting back off the ball mic just an inch or two gives less 'focused on the mouth' sounds while at the same time tames the low and low-mid proximity boost effect. This alone can clear out what typically comes off as mud'.
Don't know if there's other things going on in the equipment/recording chain department, but I'd say try mic straight in (no effect/tone box for now), set a pop filter an inch or so off the mic and sing into that.
Play with the distance, even mic height somewhat as your tone adjustment.
Go from there..
 
Hi Guys,

I can't thank you all enough for the prompt response.

I would like to confirm that the Mic Mechanic is actually a vocal processor that has an adaptive tone button which auto adjusts the EQ to provide a crisps and clear voice which also provides reverb, delay and correction. It also has a pre-amp with built in phantom power.

I connect the balanced XLR output to my 1/4inch Mic Input in my keyboard.

I was initially thinking of getting either:

1) MXL v69/v67
2) RODE NT1a / NT2a

Are you guys saying that I should stick with my Beta58a and tweak more on settings and recording techniques ?

If so, of course it would be great to be able to save some money. However, if the condenser mics would add significant clarity to my voice when recording, I wouldn't mind forking out for a condenser mic.

Thanks again !

Cheers
Nycky
 
I think you're faced with a problem either way.

If the Mic mechanic is a mic preamp with line out (and i'm not doubting you), then you're running a preamp into a preamp which isn't really ideal. (Use aux input on keyboard instead)
If it's just a mic level processor then your path is technically fine, but I'd still want to know more about the quality of the keyboard's preamp.


Try to find out a bit more about it, from a recording point of view.
It may well be an add designed for live performance, and live gear isn't usually made to the same spec as studio gear.


Basically, rule out the keyboard preamp. If it gets bad rep, buy a USB interface with mic pre built in. :)
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks again for the replies.

To clarify, i would like a perfect recording setup. Not necessary for live singing.

Steenamaroo: I do not really understand the technical details of what a pre-amp is and all. However, as arcaxis mentioned, there is a option to choose "Line in or Mic in" at the back of the keyboard. Being a complete noob to recording, I do not know if there is a difference and I just purely use Mic in. Will it be better if i change it to line in ? Would I spoil the keyboard ?

arcaxis: Great to see a fellow TC Helicon user here ! A really nice recording you have ! The reason why i bought the TC Helicon thing is because Im not v technically inclined to mess around with EQ settings. Hence, I leave my EQ settings on the keyboard intact.

Another thing that I left out is how I'm recording. I plug the XLR cable from the mic to the TC Helicon Mic Mechanic XLR input. And from the balanced XLR output, I have a cable that goes to the 1/4 inch jack at the back of my keyboard (the one that Im able to select either Mic In or Line In with a switch). However, I have been leaving it at Mic In since day one.

For recording, the PSR S-950 has a new feature which allows me to directly record into my thumb drive both my playing and vocals in WAV format. That is why I do not connect it to the computer and this also simplifies things for me.

As the V67 is not very expensive, do you think I'll benefit from it ?

Also, if yes, V67i or V67g ?

Below is a sample, do not mind the voice. I would also like to mention at the same time that my vocals are not that good and would consider myself to have an amateur voice. Probably just wanting to obtain the clarity.



Thank you !

Cheers
Nycky
 
Last edited:
Sorry and pardon my ignorance, but could u explain what a flat EQ is.

Should I turn everything to the left ?

Yeah. I'm using a headphone.

The audio that i posted previously is without the Mic Mechanic.

With the Mic Mechanic, it gets slightly better. But still not as clear.
 
You want a high pass filter and little boost somewhere in the higher end.

High pass filter removes a lot of bass and muddy sounds. Be careful you don't go too far.

Don Williams' voice is surprisingly deep, but it's never bassy in the recordings. HPF. :)
 
Steenamaroo: Yeah ! I love his voice ! Its those High Pass things and EQ things that I'm afraid of. Thats why I simply got the Mic Mechanic hoping it would solve my problems. Haha. Shortcut for lazy and technically declined people.

Arcaxis: I'm not sure if i did it correctly as the images below shows. I've also toggled the switch from MIC input to LINE input at the back of the keyboard. Also, I always wanted to clarify if i should be singing within the yellow range, or the green range of the Mic Input Level as I've always been adjusting the volume so it hangs around the yellow area.

One last thing that I noticed is, when with the Mic Mechanic, even with everything off, there is a slight reverb heard through my keyboard. The keyboard has no reverb on. However, when i plug the mic in directly without the mic mechanic, the reverb goes away. Is that supposed to happen ?

Thank you once again.

Cheers
Nycky

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Also, I've recorded a new version of the same song using the Mic Mechanic this time.

Just looking for some comments if the Mic Mechanic actually improves the clarity of the voice ? Hopefully my money is not wasted on the Mic Mechanic.

I might have offended some people with either poor quality vocals or poor quality recordings. I hope you guys are able to chime in as well to even criticize if possible as I'm still learning and improving day by day. ;)

P.S: Pardon me for the poor pronunciation as I've just had my braces fixed 2 days ago.

Before Mic Mechanic:


With Mic Mechanic:
 
The yellow is the perfect place to be on your meters. :)
Those pics show no eq at all. Perfectly flat.


It looks to me like 'background noise cut' is your high pass filter.
Try it at 200hz. You should notice some mud disappearing.
400hz is probably too far, but play around and see.

For a high frequency boost, set your 'eq high' to +6db or so, then sweep the other knob (kHz) up and down to hear the different choices that you have.
If/When you find a frequency that sounds well when boosted, maybe reduce the amount to a few db.......Whatever fits.
Maybe you won't need a boost at all!

It's an accumulative issue. If you have too much bass going on in your vocal track, the reverb will accentuate it.
Cut it out and you should notice a world of difference.
 
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