Vocal mic for a bright voice

[littledog]

Thanks, guys.

I prefer to place the mic at least five feet from the singer, to resemble the minimum distance between the singer and the trainer/instructor. I'd like to hear on playback what the trainer/instructor heard.

At that distance, you are not only evaluating the technique of the vocalist, but the "technique" of the room.

If you wanted to really split hairs, to really hear it as an instructor is hearing it, you would probably need to use a binaural head mic. But i wonder if even that technique would not take into consideration certain psycho-acoustic factors. Like the ability of the brain to act as a complex filter/decoder that enables one to ignore obnoxious early reflections and concentrate on the direct signal of the voice... Does the simultaneous visual input the brain is getting help with this "focusing", for instance?

I know this is probably not really on topic, but it raises some interesting questions about how we hear live vs. recorded sound.

 

[Jetphase]

Jetphase,

Your list includes the RCA 44BX. Is it still manufactured at present? I thought it had been discontinued?

I've seen a review of an AEA mic that claims to be a replica of RCA 44BX. Sounds like the RCA 44BX is no longer around but enjoys a position in a Hall of Fame.

I've searched for an RCA web site, to no avail. Does the company still exist?

Thanks.

sorry...i've been gone for a few days...anyway, harvey seems to have covered this question *quite* nicely...

ya gotta get the rca's used....AEA's "replica" mikes are rumoured to be quite good, though i haven't had the chance to put them through their paces....the "real" rca 44's are great mics...possibly the *best* mic for upright bass, IMO (at least "most" of the time..)...pretty darned good on vocals too, if you find the right vocalist...kinda gives that "smoothness" that we associate with people like nat king cole, etc....

it's a bit more common to see the 77's used for vox these days....very smooth mics, in general...you should be able to find a good one in the $1500 range...not cheap, but they are a great "multi-use" mic....

you may want to investigate the oktava ribbon mic..the ML52, i think (?)...it wouldn't set you back *nearly* as much, but should give you at least some of the "feel" of the rca's...

JET

 

[Jetphase]

Fine...

So, you're over here now hanging out with Harvey and the boys? Come back to HC sometime. I know T. Alan misses you...

If you ever come through OKC, then let me buy you lunch. Do you like Vietnamese sanwiches? http://www.piemusic.com/sl/baguette3.jpg

Steve
http://www.piemusic.com

just stopping by occasionally, as time allows.... ...i gave up on HC...to many people that just want to "argue" and insult...i'd rather "discuss", you know....

never had a vietnamese sandwich...i'll certainly get a hold of you next time i got through OKC and try one though ...i was just through there a few months back, but i'm probably looking at spring before i go back on tour...got a new album (or two !) to record, ya know.....

have a great day...and tell T Alan and the boys i said "Hi"...(JM350, Jetboat guy, etc...)...i wish them the best of luck....

JET

 

[Harvey Gerst]

sorry...i've been gone for a few days...anyway, harvey seems to have covered this question *quite* nicely...

ya gotta get the rca's used....AEA's "replica" mikes are rumoured to be quite good, though i haven't had the chance to put them through their paces....the "real" rca 44's are great mics...possibly the *best* mic for upright bass, IMO (at least "most" of the time..)...pretty darned good on vocals too, if you find the right vocalist...kinda gives that "smoothness" that we associate with people like nat king cole, etc....

JET

I had the honor of being one of the first people to test Wes Dooley's AEA 44, and it was identical to my well maintained RCA 44BX in every way. Wes has a second version that is supposed to be 6 dB hotter, but I've never heard it.

 

[chessparov]

hk, keep in mind that omni's tend to sound more distant to begin
with compared to uni-directional microphones.
About 6-8" away is a good starting point in general.
Microphones "hear" differently than humans too!
So using a person's distance from the singer isn't that relevant.

Chris

 

[Richard Monroe]

Hk, 5 feet?! Oh well. Guess what, at that distance, don't bother with an omni, proximity effect will not be an issue, and you'll get a great recording of your room. Frankly, a small diaphragm cardioid condenser has tremendous reach, and are often used from considerable distances for choral ensembles. One thing such distance does do is cancel out the relevance of microphone technique. When you're up close and personal with a mic, you have to control plosives and sibilants and move closer and farther away, on and off axis to use the mic's pickup field and proximity to best advantage. A condenser mic is a tool a singer uses, not an ear that reports what he did. If you're training the singer for opera, get rid of the mic entirely. If you're training a recording artist, get him right in front of a large diaphragm condenser with a pop filter and learn to deal with your new tool.-Richie

 

[ozraves]

just stopping by occasionally, as time allows.... ...i gave up on HC...to many people that just want to "argue" and insult...i'd rather "discuss", you know....

never had a vietnamese sandwich...i'll certainly get a hold of you next time i got through OKC and try one though ...i was just through there a few months back, but i'm probably looking at spring before i go back on tour...got a new album (or two !) to record, ya know.....

have a great day...and tell T Alan and the boys i said "Hi"...(JM350, Jetboat guy, etc...)...i wish them the best of luck....

JET

I think you'd love a Vietnamese sandwich.

Did you ever check out Jetboatguy's band? I think it's something you might like. I mixed one of their new songs for them. One of the tracks from their EP is on their site. You should give it a listen. http://www.artefakt.ca/bfe/

Steve
http://www.piemusic.com

 

[hk_runner]

trying to record myself

Richard, I haven't made it clear that I am the vocalist in question, not the instructor. (If I were the instructor, I could certainly do without a mic).

Why a recording ----- I can't hear my voice accurately in real time because the sound also travels inside the head. So a recording is necessary for correcting mistakes upon playback. When I practice in my room (i.e. without the instructor), I'd like to record my voice, listen to the playback, and try to improve the technique.

Why not 8 inches ----- Chessparov, I did try to sing to a mic only 8 inches away. But I found that I wasn't projecting the voice in the same way as I would project to the instructor five feet away (during training at his place). So the 8-inch recording wasn't of much help in the self-practice. That's why I thought of recording from a longer distance.

Why 5 feet --- Five feet is the distance from me to my instructor when I take lessons at his studio. I didn't realize that five feet would be too big a distance for recording. I've seen longer distances. I used to sing in a choir and we did some concerts in a hall. A mic was hanging there, about 10 - 15 feet from us. (I didn't get to listen to those recordings, though.) I figured if 15 feet worked in a hall, maybe 5 feet wouldn't be outrageous for my room.

How it failed ------- As I can't hear myself accurately, the only way to find out whether the recording works is to record someone else. So I recorded other singers at my place. I stood five feet away from them, with the mic next to me. As you can tell, the recorded voices didn't sound like their original voices I heard from the same distance.

Why a new mic ------- I attributed the failure above to the wrong choice of mics (AKG 3700 and AKG C1000S). So I've been on the lookout for a mic suitable for that distance.

Well, now I guess I simply can't compare my tiny, untreated, reverberant room to a 1500-seat purpose-built hall, let alone comparing a solo voice to a choir.

Now that your consensus is that recording from five feet away is a non-starter in a reverberant room, perhaps I should ditch that idea and accept the normal 8-inch distance --- until I can afford to build a studio.