Vocal Comping

[NYMorningstar]

Does anyone care to share how they comp their vocals? I'm interested in tracking and mixing habits, preferably good ones e.g. always 2-3 takes or retakes for just troubled areas, tools you use etc. Please share experiences I could learn from...

 

[Greg_L]

My vocals suck and I spend no time or energy trying to make them good. That's my secret technique.

 

[Steenamaroo]

If a singer is good and has it down, i tend to do at least two full takes and assume that it's all going to go to plan (what?)
I just send both to a buss with the same FX, then i can switch volumes between the two/three takes.


If there are frequent mistakes, i let them know that i'll stop it and drop them in 10/15 seconds before the screw up.
I make sure they know that i need good singing before the screw up so i can fade it well.

From then on it's a case of stop/start stop/start, but it's quick and efficient.

I think i started doing that cos i Hate it when people make a mistake, stop, take the headphones off, move away from the mic, discuss it, then end up chatting and i'm like WTF...COME ON!!!!!!!!!

I'm not a good consistent singer, so for my own vocals i do the overlap style recording.

 

[Richie2708]

I really try to avoid compressors, I like to achieve the best possible result from the recording phase first. Trial and error with different mics, and varying distances from the mic. Once I am happy with this, I then record (Not always in one take). Depending on how tired the vocals are getting, I try to get as many takes as possible.

I then Overlay all the tracks. And go through them with the vocalist. (This usually has a small amount of reverb on it, otherwise most vocalist cringe at a dry take.)

Once I've established which sections of each take work best I then chop them and merge them to one track. Then I adjust volume to suit throughout the track, then define the general eq. Which can vary throughout the track, in which case I automate the eq.

Lastly I use a compressor if needed.

Finally when the vocalist is gone, I fine tune errors using melodyne

Done

 

[Bobbsy]

I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket so I only record other people which means my technique varies somewhat depending on how they like to work.

However, a few things. First, even if a take seems absolutely flawless, I always ask for at least one more, preferably two, just to give some leeway when I hear things in the mix that I missed during tracking. No matter how good, I always here things.

I usually ask vocalists to try to do a full take even if they make a mistake. I'd rather punch in on a full take rather than do lots of bits and pieces. I don't always get my way and, if not, just make the best of it.

Regarding punch ins, if there's one section that is problematic, sometimes letting them do just that without worrying about getting the bits before or after right can help them hit the notes and/or timing.

As has been said, feeding vocals to a bus with the same effects applied to all lets you mix and match takes very easily.

One thing I always do is spend a lot of time on the headphone mix being heard by the vocalist. Giving them the right amounts of themselves and what they need to hear in the backing tracks can really make a difference to the quality of the performance. Many inexperienced people say "that's fine" whatever you give them...try to talk them through letting you know what helps them. This includes things like reverb on the monitor feed...it helps some people, hinders others.

 

[Track Rat]

I always record dry and try to get at least two complete takes. I try discourage any more than four takes. I'll make notes while tracking as to the best take, obvious clams, etc. I use what I concider the best take and scrub through all of them. I'll then identify any issues phrase by phrase and either grab a word or phrase from one of the other takes and pull it into my base "keeper" track. Once I have the best base track I can comp, I'll go back and do surgical "tuning" if I have to. Sometimes I'll use an alternate take to pull up next to my keeper to use a double in spots.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

I usually do 3 of my own and cut and paste to make the best single take. Usually one is better than the others so I'll keep most of that one and cut and paste from the other two when the pitch isn't right. Sometimes when I really suck, I'll have to record a couple of lines all by themselves because none of the three are any good.

I use Reaper so I'll do all the takes in one track and just split them at the trouble points and pick the best. Usually I'll put a little EQ on them, then send the comped track out to my 1176 and record to a new track. Then delay and they're done.

 

[Absolutepower]

I like to split it up into sections. 1st verse, 1st chorus ect. Do a few on each section and pick the best one. I've learned its important to keep at it until you get it right, in terms of timing, giving full value to every note and stuff like that.

 

[grimtraveller]

I probably haven't answered the question !

I'd rather punch in on a full take rather than do lots of bits and pieces. I don't always get my way

I like to split it up into sections. 1st verse, 1st chorus ect. Do a few on each section and pick the best one. I've learned its important to keep at it until you get it right, in terms of timing, giving full value to every note and stuff like that.

Asv ever it's fascinating looking at the different approaches people take.
I'm afraid I'm something of a hard taskmaster. I'm an ogre for getting the parts right ! It really depends on the singer how the overall vocal is achieved because some of my friends can be so tempramental ! By and large, I'll work on verses and choruses separately. In a way it's easier to do it that way because then, I can just keep working on a small section {ie, the verse or chorus} until we get it right. Also, by the time one chorus is conquered, the rest become quite easy as it's the same. I never 'comp' together two or three takes although sometimes, I might've been double tracking and decide to combine bits of the two into a single track. I'm not beyond doing lots of bits and pieces as long as it sounds in the end like one continuous take. Making sure the same EQ and effects are on all the bits is crucial or it can sound disjointed.
Bobbsy made a good point about missing things during the tracking, even after listening back to a take that sounds good, later on I might find a bit that's out. In those instances, comping may well have helped but I'll just get the person back to redo the section. Frustrating at times, but what the heck.
If I'm doing the vocal, that's when I have the least hassle because I know exactly what's needed. Sometimes it'll take me 3 or 4 minutes. There's a feeling that a vocal has to take eons. In my laid back world it doesn't.

 

[Armistice]

I tend to go for 3 takes when recording the other half of the band singing his songs, but for me, try to get one good take and do punch ins where necessary and comp-it-on-the-go.....

As the other half of the band never writes his lyrics down, I have the added complication of him singing different words in different places... not to mention often completely different melodies and phrasings.... and volumes.

Doesn't make it easy and he's often surprised that my vocal tracks sound better than his, despite his much superior voice...

 

[Spare Dougal]

If it's with a band I try and do the vocal live, especially if they are playing an instrument too. Then use the vocal from the best take and either edit in or drop in or just fix the little bits that need doing.

If it's an overdub, depending on the difficulty of the song, I'll do a couple or 3 full takes, and then use one as the master and edit bits in from the others, but only edit where needed or where the other take had a blinding bit or something. I try to edit as little as possible, which I'll say is to do with keeping the sound and the energy real and the same, but mainly is cos I want to get one with doing the more fun bits rather than fannying around editing syllables of a vocal.

Having said that I tend to let the singer dictate. I've started getting a few takes and then letting the singer do the rudimentary editing, without me there so that when I come a listen to it I can pick out bits with fresh ears and other bits they think are mistakes I might miss and put it down to the atmosphere. Stops you getting too hooked on a problem. Also means they do the work and feel involved and like they are choosing their vocals, rather than someone 'fixing' the bits they 'couldn't' do.

 

[miroslav]

It depends on who is singing and how well they have the song down.

For my own vocals, it's usually 3 takes. That's become my SOP.
In the past I've done as many as 5 takes, but have come to the conclusion that the extra two takes didn't bring anything new to the table.
Usually I'll run through 1-2 times just to warm up and make sure the phrasing and levels are where they should be...then I'll record three takes and comp from them.

With three takes the comping is much more manageable, and going in I know that I'm only doing three, so it forces me to focus that much more on those three rather than go with the notion I can do as many as I want (even if I could).

 

[NL5]

Wow. I try to get the vocalist to do it till it's right. If they just aren't getting it after a while, I'll usually suggest coming back on a different day. Once they are getting frustrated, it rarely gets better.

 

[miroslav]

Well...if the entire performance sucks, then I would keep doing some takes to see if it improves or come back the next day.

If it's just a word here and there that's off, but the performances or pretty good otherwise....why torture them?
Grab a few takes and comp.

 

[guitaristic]

In my case, if I'm tracking you and you can't hit a good vocal take after 4 tries, you better quit and try again tomorrow or I'm gonna get pissed at your incompetence.

 

[grimtraveller]

if you can't hit a good vocal take after 4 tries, you better quit and try again tomorrow

Wow. I try to get the vocalist to do it till it's right

For my own vocals, it's usually 3 takes. That's become my SOP.

Miroslav, I'm curious about something here. If your standard operating procedure is 3 takes regardless, what if one of the takes is good enough on it's own ? Actually, another point of curiosity, do you ever find that one particular take is good enough ?
I guess of course it depends on the song and how the vocals intertwine with the music and whether there are verses, pre~choruses, middle 8s, choruses, bridges, outros and the like.
To be honest, as long as the end result is satisfactory it doesn't matter how a vocal is achieved but I still aim for the 'do it until you get it right' end of things. But tools and methods exist for a good reason and it's different from singing live where the third word has already been forgotten by the time you've arrived at the 11th !

 

[miroslav]

Actually...you are right...most often one take will be best of the bunch (same with anything else, not just vocals)...and that's the take that is primarily used, with the other takes providing sections/fill-ins where needed.
There are times where one take is 95% good on it's own...but when there are a few takes to choose from, there's usually something that just sounds better from one of the others. It might be just one word...

 

[Absolutepower]

You can often get a really good take the first take. You think wow, that sounds awesome, we got it in the first take. Then you listen to it, and it sounds good, but there are mistakes. You have to go back and do it again. Hey wait that could be a haiku
A first take, sounds great
Then you listen, find mistakes
Go back and retry.

 

[NYMorningstar]

When doing all this editing does dc offset or zero crossing come into play? Which do you deal with first and why or does it really matter?

 

[miroslav]

No DC offset...and I think most DAWs are set up to cut at the zero point automatically...plus, you just cross-fade your splices.

But here's the thing...with vocals, most of the cuts/splices happen *between* words/phrases, so there is no audio there.
It's only if you are trying to fix something, that you end up cutting actual audio.